Was the sonographer being a creep?

[Owlmoonstar]

I had an ultrasound scan today to investigate pelvic pain.

Firstly it was external, like a typical pregnancy scan.

And then I was asked if I would like an internal exam, which I agreed.

During the internal scan, the sonographer (a man) touched my bum cheeks in a bit of a weird way.

If you can imagine the way your hand would grip the device, he then released his index and little finger and was kinda jiggling the skin near my bum crack.

He also did an in and out motion with the device, as one would with a dildo.

I don't know if I'm overthinking everything. It felt off at the time. But obviously I was just all kinda tensed up, staring at the ceiling trying to wish the entire procedure was over. Same as when you have a smear test. It's just an uncomfortable, unpleasant situation in general.

I just wanted to get it all off my chest and have some feedback really.

Having a scan, in an intimate area feels generally vulnerable, so I'm not sure if I'm being silly.

It’s not quite that simple as what you would and wouldn’t allow. I think most of us would prefer a female, however it might mean waiting longer than necessary.

You didn't, you said 'no idea why it's an issue' which came across as not having much understanding of why it might be an issue for some. My point really is that while many might be fine with it, it should be called out/challenged every time, rather than dismissed as not an issue.

This is interesting because when I declined to have mine and said I wanted a female Sonographer, his words, verbatim, "Well I'm not going to force you".
I knew I should have complained, I know I should have complained.
I didn't.
I had too much else going on to let him into my life any further.
So my experience is that no, they don't all take rejection easily, some leave a sting when they're stung.
One is too many.

Yes exactly, and any sign of attitude like that don't hesitate to complain, it's out of order

If you complain, I can see the following outcomes when they look into it.

• all that stuff is normal but maybe they need to work on their communication so that the patient knows it's normal. All good. The sonographer learns to be a better communicator, or a chaperone does the communication for him and it influences the experience for future female patients for the better.
• the bum touching was not normal and his process needs investigating further to see if it was either an accident or creepy on purpose. In which case there's more care taken, chaperones keep a closer eye. Records are checked to see if there were any further complaints. Experience improves for future female patients.

Either way, as unlikely as it is that he would get into trouble, I don't think him getting into trouble should be your concern.

I don't think you overreacted and I'm concerned that your husband was dismissive. Was that some of the reason why you sought an opinion from other women, rather than going straight to him?

The other point that I would mention when you complain is that he asked if you wanted the internal scan. As a patient you have no idea whether it is necessary or not.
I think I would want that clarifying too..... Was it even necessary?
Should he have actually said something like you need an internal scan, are you happy for me to do it or would you like a female sonographer?
If he should have had a conversation with you about whether you were comfortable with him doing it. It's either creepy and coercive that that conversation was limited to did you want it.... Or was it an innocent communication problem on his part, in which case it needs to be addressed with him as such and his communication improved.

Having written all that out, I think we know the bum touching was not normal and needs addressing.

Edited, sorry I didn't mean to include the quote where a poster has dismissed their own experience and I can't remove it.

Op, when you complain I think it is important to also say how you felt at the time. You have given some good descriptions here and also it has left you feeling. Confused, distressed, flashbacks to the experience etc...

It is hard to say, but there should have been a chaperone in the room with you if it was a man. ALWAYS. I've had a couple of these done, one by a man. I'm in Mexico and things are different here (ie no chaperone). This is how incompetent he was: He inserted the probe into my ANUS!! I had to tell him (in Spanish) that he was in the wrong place. I laugh about it now, but it was super annoying and destroyed any confidence I might have had regarding my medical care.

Report. Report. Report.

I've had a lot of internal ultrasounds (PCOS and ovarian pain) and that has never happened, even when they want to change the angle there's never been a major in and out motion and no touching of anything with fingers outside in ANY way. I'm sorry this sonographer has made you feel so uncomfortable it made me uncomfortable just reading it. I do think instinct plays a large part in these scenarios and if it's make you feel better, it might be worth sending a letter/ email to speak to someone (not that sonographer) at the practice. He hasn't done anything against the rules, but the rare awful practitioners get away with it by doing exactly that...staying in the grey area of what's expected

I’ve had quite a few of these internal scans, I didn’t experience the in and out motion myself only side to side and slow movements, with them explaining what they are doing and why, the sonogrphaper is aware it’s uncomfortable to the patient, never had a finger touch me anywhere but the probe.
I think it’s worth reporting, even if it was a mistake he needs to be more aware in future of making the patient feel comfortable as possible.

I omitted to say earlier that the slight in and out and side to sides are totally normal ime.
The gripping of your fist under your bum was new to me and something I won't tolerate in future. They'll be told to get a suitable wedge and not use me as a shortcut.

That in and out like that? I have had 12 transvaginal ultrasounds minimum she to ovarian cancer. I sometimes feel that my (gentle, female) surgeon is using a gaming joystick ( or somesuch) as she makes shit she can view everything she needs to. Yes there might be some slight in and out movement but it's never feels like a dildo. The fact that you were made very uncomfortable is report it. Trust your instinct. The fact that there was no female chaperone? Totally against all policies for intimate procedures . That is alarming and very, very suspicious. Don't be gaslit,either by yourself or anyone else.

Surely a female assistant behind the screen is the same as no assistant at all? She can't see what he's doing.

Could not agree more.

He has to ask. He needs your consent to do anything, and whilst a transvaginal scan is advised, it’s not compulsory, so a sonographer has to offer it, and get your permission. Your referral possibly stated transabdominal and transvaginal, and generally the sonographer only offers it if they feel they’ll get clearer imaging that way.

Also, @Glitchymn1, an internal ultrasound should be done with an empty bladder, not a full one, so you should’ve been sent to the toilet when you got changed.

I second what @tinybeautiful says, the probe doesn’t go through your cervix, just into your vagina, about the depth of your thumb, not much more. They have to move it around to see all your organs, ovaries are sneaky critters that hide behind your bowel, so they often have to hunt for them, meaning the probe moves side to side, up and down and possibly in and out a little. Sometimes they need to push down on your belly from outside to move your bowel out the way, they may even ask you to do it for them.

The finger in the bum crack sounds odd, an email to PALS is a good idea, if nothing else he’ll be more careful where he puts his hands from now on, and the chaperone should be where she can see what’s going on, not behind you doing stuff on the computer.

I had the opposite problem during my scan. The chaperone was chatting away from the end of the bed so had full view of the procedure going on. She asked if I knew someone who I do actually work with. It was her SIL. Great! Some very sensitive information was discussed during the appointment so I was a bit upset about the whole thing.

Incidentally, the actual examination you described was similar to mine but you're right, they should have made an effort to put you at ease during it. I would get intouch and offer some constructive feedback.

I think this is the problem.
I had the same procedure for suspected uterus/overian cancer last year and you could have been describing my experience word for word. The difference was he spoke to me through out. Explained that he wanted to get the most from the images as he was trying to find something unspecific and the more detail the more chance a consultant would have of spotting anything untoward.
I wouldn't complain about the procedure as such but maybe contact pals and explain that you feel he should have been more vocal about what he was doing and why during your procedure.

A transvaginal US and a pelvic US are two separate things, and I’m not sure you can be asked “if you fancy an internal exam now” without a specific request from a Dr. If your dr hadn’t requested a transvaginal US then you shouldn’t have had one.

The woman behind the screen is not a chaperone either, she would’ve been a Radiology Assistant.

I do think your concerns are valid; never underestimate your gut feeling. It is entirely appropriate to speak with the hospital and let them decide how best to proceed.

There are many historical cases of male healthcare professionals abusing their positions and it’s because as women we are made to feel we are imagining it, don’t want to make a fuss or cause anyone to lose their job that they get away with it. It could be innocent, but then it might not be either.

@theyregonnaknow
“The woman behind the screen is not a chaperone either, she would’ve been a Radiology Assistant.”

Radiology Assistants are chaperones it’s part of the job role.

All pelvic ultrasound requests can include a transvaginal scan, if the sonographer can’t see what they need to with the transabdominal they can offer an internal scan, it doesn’t need to be specified by the Dr on the request.

I think that the issue here is the chaperone. And I would actually write to them and ask if the chaperone should be viewing the procedure or working on the computer, up the opposite end of the room. So don’t complain until you know their rules. If they say watching then complain. About her.

as for the sonographer, I do think it’s hugely possible he was concentrating on doing his job and did not even realise his fingers had touched you lower down, that’s very easy and they do dozens of these each day, what is a massively nerve wracking experience for us, is just a case of next to them, and yes sometimes they will just get the job done.

so I’m not of the view he was a pervert, or he wasn’t a pervert, just it’s hard to tell as clearly for both of you it’s a very different experience mentally.

however I would ask the role of the chaperone.

The only time a probe is entered through your cervix is when they perform a hysteroscopy. A pelvic scan is usual done to examine up to & including your cervix entrance so the probe doesn't go through the cervix entrance.

I was until recently a Paramedic so have some experience medically but obviously I have not done this procedure.
My advice is speak to someone about your concerns.
You may receive a satisfactory explanation or you maybe highlighting an issue

Should the radiographer have explained whenever they felt an internal scan was necessary and why?
Would it be normal to check they are comfortable with this next step going ahead?
Would there be discussion of being able to request a female sonographer?

I had an echocardiogram and the man doing it asked me if I would prefer it was a female colleague. He was so respectful it was one of the better medical experiences I have had.

The sonographer should do the transabdominal scan, and if they are unable to image the pelvic organs clearly, they should say something along those lines and offer a transvaginal scan. It should be clear that it’s optional, and the patient should give consent before the scan takes place. If the patient requests a female sonographer it may not be possible to get one right away and the appointment may need to be rebooked so a female sonographer can do it.