Trans woman in Riot Women! WTF?

[OneBadKitty]

I usually love anything by Sally Wainwright, but what was she thinking by have a trans-woman in a band called Riot Women that is supposed to be full of menopausal women singing about HRT and other female related issues?

Fairly easily - sport has rules and is often split by sex. Community (and television) is for everyone and doesn't segregate men and women.

“If that’s what they want”? I don’t know why anyone would choose to be transgender. To choose a life that is likely to subject you to violence, discrimination and rejection. Almost half of trans people attempt suicide. Kind of makes me think that it’s not some twisted choice, but a difficult reality that takes unbearable resilience to get through. You’re overthinking the consequences of this small act of writerly generosity. Let it go.

I'm not sure where you're getting segregating television 🫠

But this programme is being praised (upthread) for promotion of acceptance of men as women in the community. But there are consequences to that, is my point, where you have to row back on that and say no, we can't accept you as a woman here. How do you define woman via sex sometimes and via something else at other times?

He seemed pretty hostile to women though with his Fuck terfs t shirt 🤷‍♀️

The suicide stats you are throwing around there are widely debunked by the way.

And I don't think it is an act of generosity. If it's going to be directly contradicted when it comes to something like sport, it strikes me as confusing and not genuine.

You asked where does it end if a trans person is presented as a positive way on TV, and asked if it meant they'd be accepted in sports.

Sports is often segregated by sex. TV is not.

Which means all transwomen are hostile, to be reviled at every opportunity and must be forbidden from any positive representation. Slippery slope and all that.

I think TKF is just fucking with us at this point. The straw-clutching is quite something, in a whataboutery sort of a way.

No. I didn't say 'presented in a positive way'.

I said 'presented as accepted as a woman by the community'.

TV like this is connected to our reality, it doesn't reflect a world that has nothing to do with our world. So how do we square the circle of accepting men as women in some situations but not others?

So what

it’s a tv program, fiction, part is small and is not taking away from the lead female roles

there are trans people in society just bumbling along in life as most of us are there really doesn’t need to be a kick back every time there is a trans person on tv, is mentioned in the media, has written a book and so on

it really doesn’t help with the discussions about safe spaces for girls and women, female sport etc it just adds fuel to those who will call any discussion about concerns as transphobic

Again - easily. Where situations are segregated by sex (i.e. sports) then yes we need to enforce that. But there is absolutely no problem with accepting a trans woman or trans man socially where there is no sex segregation.

Ok fair enough

No, it’s being praised for addressing issues women face every day. Issues like rape, bullying, domestic violence, caring for multiple generations, dealing with the loss of a parent to dementia. How we treat trans women in every day life might conceivably be one of those issues, albeit so subtly as to barely be noticeable in this work. I have absolutely no issue with treating trans women with as much respect as natal women when I encounter them and I’m pretty disgusted by people who don’t.

Do people like myself and my friends not get to be represented? Those of us who are cis, but have trans friends, who we accept, and welcome, and call by chosen names and requested pronouns, who are treated like people and cis friends around us without question?

Are we not permitted to see our normal day to day on TV?

Also, as a disabled person, the comments about disabled characters being played by disabled actors is fucking hilarious.. people clearly have a VERY short memory because a lot of disabled characters are STILL played by abled actors.

Can you clarify how that looks in real life?

Are we telling a man to his face that he is accepted as a woman and he is ‘just one of the girls’ but then if he tries to join us in the ladies toilets, do we turn round and tell him to go away?

@Kreepture do you accept many people don't want to be seen as 'cis' which is defining yourself by others views? And generally is a 'handmaiden' type role?
Do you think your trans friends see you of.equal status to them?

I agree. Just striking through the word pervert doesn't alter what was said.

Having now watched all episodes it's pretty clear that the trans character is a shoehorn as they are literally insignificant to the plot. Shame they had to have them in the band and not in a more likely role.

Hebden Bridge is known for it's lesbian population, and it's general eco and sustainable culture with lots of organic, vintage, craft shops, and locally sourced shops and markets, not it's trans population. I'm a local and it's a very accepting place in many ways, but never particularly noticed more transpeople than anywhere else.

Sally Wainright has form for her brilliant casting and writing of women's issues and roles. This feels like she was pressured into including some of the characters in the name of inclusivity and diversity.

The issues faced by the main characters were very much women's issues and not universal for transwomen.

Cis woman here. Happy to stand with @Kreepture and others on here, and to advocate for treating trans men and trans women with respect and dignity.

I agree

though I do just call myself a woman

I hardly hear cis being mentioned now

I’m losing track - is the trans actor meant to be threatening the wellbeing of women everywhere by being in this show? Or are they completely insignificant?

The floundering around to find justification is getting ridiculous.

Get A Grip!

🙋🏼Cis woman who knows and loves trans people in my everyday life and is capable of seeing trans characters or actors on tv without having a total wobbler about it

Exactly - anyone not "toeing the line" group think on here is automatically a "trans activist." Either that or a man. 🙄

Same and same 🙂

Odd comment, but we were talking about the one in the programme who appears to be pretty hostile to women.

OK, so those of us who think that men who actually rape and assault women are more misogynist than a fictional character in a show,

That’s just an attempt to obscure the issue being discussed on this thread. This isn’t just about a fictional character in a show. This actor is quite hostile to women irl. He is also a man. How do you differentiate him from any other man who is hostile to women?

Ok. Let’s say that anyone who defines themselves as a ‘cis woman’ is not working in the interests of women.