To find salary offered an insult?

[Willowtree5]

As part of a restructure, I have been asked if I would take on three direct reports (I currently don’t manage anyone, but have in the past - big pull of current role was no line management responsibility).

I said I’d consider it - whilst I know I can manage people, it does add to my workload and the ‘mental load’ of dealing with all the crap around sickness/absence, 1:1’s etc.

My manager said she’d establish what additional uplift to my salary would be possible and let me know.

They’ve come back with an offer of £125,000 (current salary pre bonuses £105,000) which I find frankly insulting given the workload this would add.

AIBU to tell them to stuff it?

Where are these people living “in London”?

People are taking the “£125k is a very average salary” out of context. I said “in law/finance, in London” (which is relevant to this thread). Also don’t worry, you wouldn’t be able to just get a sports car on that salary, especially if you have kids 😅

I see, that makes more sense.

I chose YABU, not because of the figure ( I personally would pay no mind to the ‘you’re being greedy’) crowd. I chose it because it’s an offer which means you can go back and counter - that’s how you negotiate. Of course they will lowball you - go back and ask for £150k.

That seems a vast amount of money to me. I earned a tiny bit than my colleagues for looking after a dept of 6 with all the associated paperwork, meetings, reports.......

Why are PP fixated on the figure and going all Four Yorkshiremen?

It’s all relative. If £100k+ is standard for her industry then people coming on to say they earn £30k, manage 20 people and are grateful (although I don’t know how they can compare the complexity involved) is irrelevant.

The issue is whether her peers are being paid way more for managing people. It’s common for companies to try and put you on the bottom of a new pay band when you’re promoted. She should request to see what the mid and upper range is. I’d bet there are more recent hires coming in on £150k+. She should counter the offer - it’s more hassle and expense for them to make her redundant, advertise the role and pay incomers higher rates.

Absolutely tell them to stuff it if you don't think the up-lift is worth it for the additional hassle.
I'm of a similar inclination in that management roles hold absolutely no interest to me whatsoever. I've been offered them time and time again, but even the additional pay wouldn't make up for the hassle and brain-space required.

Is there a figure they could offer that WOULD make it worth your while? It might be worth mentally deciding what that figure is, and then going back to them with a figure £5k more than that.

But if there's NO figure that would make it worth it to you, then by all means you can say that as well.

If you don’t ask, you don’t get! Good luck with the management @Willowtree5

Thanks, I’ve had a reply to say it won’t be until next week they can review as the senior manager is on holiday.

It’s a bit blooming stressful! The DCoroner would do well to look at this thread if the saga finishes me off 😂

Just don’t put yourself in harms way

I frequently remind myself of the advice "Do everything with the confidence of a mediocre white man". Would said fictitious man accept the first offer? I think not. It's fine to go back and say you are disappointed with the offer given the additional time and responsibilities involved.

And yes, per previous posters and the tax situation, you don't see much if the rise in that bracket so fight for every extra £. Good luck.

Yeah, this. The first rule of negotiation is “never accept the first offer”.

"And btw £125k is an extremely average salary in finance/law, especially in London."

I'm sorry, but you really are mistaken here.

According to the Office for National Statistics, the median salary for "Finance Professionals" and "Finance Associate Professionals" in London was £58,600 per year in 2023. The 80th percentile (ie the amount that 80% of people earn less than, so only 20% of people earn more than this) was £88,400.

These figures cover 148,000 people working in these jobs in London.

Somehow, I don't think that the median salary has increased from £58k to £125k since 2023.

In addition there are also 58,000 people working in London in "Administrative Occupations: Finance". These people also work in finance and their median salary was £33,900 and the 80th percentile figure was £45,600.

Once you add those people in as well (they also work in finance) then the overall average drops even further.
.

You also mentioned the law. For "Legal Professionals" in London their median salary in 2023 was £59,800 and for "Legal Associate Professionals" was £39,000. This covers 64,000 people working in London as "Legal Professionals". It should be noted that not everybody works for a Magic Circle firm or a big American firm.

(Source: ONS Earnings and hours worked, region by occupation by four-digit SOC: ASHE Table 15. 23 Dec 2024)

It’s different in all workplaces. I work in a well paid profession, I’m on more than the OP. Salaries are linked to our grades, and there’s a range within the grades but within limits. Going up a grade is what gets you a notable salary increase of eg 20%. Within the grade you might have people management, you might not. It’s not something that necessarily causes a grade change and def isn’t something we can get more base salary on. We’re all paid well enough to be flexible across a range of roles and accountabilities.

They must include paralegals and other juniors in this. I don’t know anybody in legal or finance on such low salaries. Maybe 10 years ago.

@Another2Cats No. People who actually work in finance in London work for a financial institution that either employs a lot of people and/or which manages or services a lot of assets. At those types of places, even 21 year old grad trainees will be on £35-60k starting salaries.

While people who do bookkeeping for an SME in Croydon or Barnet, on maybe 30-40k might consider themselves to be “working in finance” it is as relevant to the topic at hand as saying Toto Wolff’s salary is typical for the used car trade.

"They must include paralegals and other juniors in this."

Well, of course! These people also work in law as well. Or don't you stop to think about people like that?

"I don’t know anybody in legal or finance on such low salaries."

That clearly shows the bubble that you live in.

A quick look at recruitment sites like Indeed, Totaljobs, Reed etc show adverts like this:

A litigation solicitor for a firm in North Finchley - £40k-£50k

Immigration Appeals Solicitor in EC2A £50k-£60k

Residential Conveyancing Solicitor in SE London - £55k-£70k

Commercial Litigation Solicitor in Harrow £50k-£75k

Court of Protection Solicitor in the City £40k-£55k

Legal Counsel - Construction Litigation in the City £60k

Litigation Solicitor in Holborn £45k-£50k

Private Client Solicitor £50k-£65k

Why does that matter?

London is either so expensive to live that you cannot possibly cope on anything under £100k as many poster suggest on MN….or it’s not.

By asking what area of London you are suggesting that people are living in expensive areas and therefore trying to live a lifestyle that they struggle to afford - in which case it’s nothing to do with how much you’re earning but you’re simply living above your means and therefore you do not need a salary of £100k, you just want it so you can afford a luxury lifestyle.

The op obviously doesn’t work in these sectors? So how is that in any way relevant

OP - if you find a salary offer which is part of a negotiation an 'insult' and 'going to finish you off', you perhaps need to grow up and earn that huge salary by negotiating back not kicking off to a group of strangers on the internet. I would have expected at a £100k salary you would have had the resilience and understanding to know this is a negotiation.

Perhaps you are just thinking about a small subset of people involved in finance.

For example, the group "Financial managers and directors" which, as the name suggests, largely consists of job titles such as, Finance Director, Head of Corporate Finance, Group Finance Manager, Chief Finance Officer, Director (insurance company), Director (financial services company) etc.

Yes, for these people, the median salary in London in 2023 was £95,500.

But not everybody is a director or senior manager.

Incidentally, splitting the figures by sex shows a median salary for men of £101,800 and for women it was £84,100

I second this.

Good for you for negotiating. Did so myself recently and gained an extra 10K by doing so.
My friend who works in HR in a top London law firm says that men always negotiate. But women often just accept. So hoorah for us women who negotiate!

You can see why it’s lower for women by looking at replies on this thread.

Exactly what I was thinking