To find salary offered an insult?

[Willowtree5]

As part of a restructure, I have been asked if I would take on three direct reports (I currently don’t manage anyone, but have in the past - big pull of current role was no line management responsibility).

I said I’d consider it - whilst I know I can manage people, it does add to my workload and the ‘mental load’ of dealing with all the crap around sickness/absence, 1:1’s etc.

My manager said she’d establish what additional uplift to my salary would be possible and let me know.

They’ve come back with an offer of £125,000 (current salary pre bonuses £105,000) which I find frankly insulting given the workload this would add.

AIBU to tell them to stuff it?

It’s not like they wasted lots of your time putting you through countless tests and interviews only to offered you a few extra pennies. It was a fairly decent offer - getting offended makes me doubt your emotional stability.

Some people earn millions, others are on minimum wage, such is life. If you’re not happy, change your circumstances. £125k is a very average salary and actually she’s probably worse off than some on a much lower pay because she loses things like funded childcare etc. The Squeezed middle class gets a very bad deal in this country at the moment.

I’m from a solid working class background ground but because I knew my worth always negotiated well for pay increases.
worked in the North West paid 55k part time.
i worked alongside colleagues on a lot less than me because they didn’t start on a good basic.
You are absolutely due an increase for the expected added responsibility.
My mantra was always, they are paying me to make all their shareholders richer, if I didn’t perform they wouldn’t want me.

But only the OP knows her worth and the benchmark for the job she is being asked to do

the figures are meaningless without context so are not needed and her response about London unnecessary (especially as it is only really the City/Financial sector that is commensurate)

If a manager on the same level (particularly a man) is on 150k of course you try and negotiate and try and get an increase

It's a shit offer because you lose your personal allowance so get taxed more and at a higher rate.

If you are managing staff you'll have to delegate more. So promote someone to line manage, and formally manage your successor.

I wouldn’t do it for that pay rise OP, not unless you had a burning ambition to progress into line management. As pps have said, the changes in tax bracket means the raise will make little difference in you paypacket plus there would be extra stress. I wouldn’t.

The tax isn't actually the companies problem, and 20% is a good uplift on base salary, pension and bonus.
See what you can do with pension contributions to minimize your tax issue.

I think it’s a good offer based on only managing 3 people. Plus you’re getting management experience on your cv.

Make sure you put all of the £25k in a pension though otherwise your take home will decrease rather than increase.

Why are you putting D in front of everything? For those of you saying it's not worth it for tax reasons, it really is if you shove it all into your pension.

£125k to manage 3 people?! Absolutely. I manage 23 staff for £54k

I think you’re being a bit tone deaf here. It’s a good offer, but if not for you it’s not an “insult” (a rather entitled thing to say, frankly), just turn it down politely.

I wouldn't for £20k at that level unless it was a definite stepping stone on a path I wanted to take..or you want to top up your pension as the tax implications aren't great. ..
Not a fan of managing people personally so it would really have to be a good reason.....

It’s not easy to get a ~20% pay rise within the same company unless you take on some new LM responsibility. I don’t think 20% more for managing three people is unreasonable.

However the issue for you is marginal tax. Everyone has to get through that punitive tax band at some point - the question is when, and how long do you stay in it. You should be looking at what the next move after that would be - what would it involve, how easy would it be to get, how long would it take.

I don’t think trying for 150,000 is an unreasonable or bad strategy, if you remind them of the tax issue. However if you turn down the 125 and they don’t counteroffer I think you’re now going to have to look for a new job elsewhere. They will hold this against you. Everytime you ask for a pay rise they will say “we gave you the opportunity to earn more…” and it will take you a VERY long time to ever get through that black hole tax band.

I don't think it's an insult, but managing people IS a pain in the arse, so what would make it more attractive to you?
Seeing as the extra 20k would mean you pay significantly more tax, maybe you could negotiate a non-monetary perk?
Would a 4 day week swing it for you? Or an extra couple of weeks holiday a year, which could prove very useful once your DC is at school.
Non-monetary perks are inflation proof too.

It’s too low for the added stress you will have . I completely agree .

Your 20k raise is my entire annual salary. You’re being ridiculous. HTH.

Hmmm... this is a 3/10 for trolling. Even the OP is doing better than this.

I’ve had a similar scenario recently where asked to act up. I was offered a 10% uplift for the period (6 months). I negotiated 3.5 times what they offered that because tax implications would have left me worse off AND I know how my salary benchmarks. If you have a clear rationale that is evidence based that you can draw on e.g tax issues leaving you worse off, benchmark to similar roles/line management then present your case confidently. If not and it’s just that you want more, think carefully about how you position it. As a business leader I support well negotiated salary requests. I’m less keen on greedy folks!

Whether you accept the pay rise or not, you don’t want to manage people, and from your responses on this thread I’m not sure you’d be good at managing people. It sounds like your company is in a state of flux at the mo, but you say you could walk out and get another job no problem, so that might be the way to go. Turning down the line management after negotiating a larger pay increase will mark your cards for the next round of redundancies. Lots to think about for you OP.

@18KTguy @ReadingSoManyThreads I can't begin to imagine the responsibility of earning a salary like that or anywhere near it, but what jumped out for me is the lack of comprehension that the OP is the top percentage and people on minimum wage live in London.
No jealousy or envy from this end, just a massive wow at have you tried living in London with nursery aged children? Like really ??? 🫣

OP, I'm doing a "passion job" in the NHS...pmsl, the phrase made me laugh as it sounds a bit racy! B6 nurse, so quite used to managing people (staff, patients, my ward in the absence of my manager).

Back to your OP though...Is it an insult? I guess that would depend...What would taking on this new role do for you? If it could be used as a stepping stone to bigger/better things (and perhaps you bank the extra pay into pension so you don't get screwed over on taxes), then maybe you could do it for a time and then look for something else. If that's what you want!

Are you being forced to take this role due to the restructure? I'm surprised that you've not come to your managers with an actual figure of what you feel you should get (for managing these 3 people). You think you're worth more, which is great, so negotiate: be that a higher salary, or more perks (like extra A/L), or a bit of both. If you don't ask, you don't get!

Just put it this way, if I could negotiate to get a higher salary for my job, I bloody well would!!

She is not wrong. Lots of newspaper stories at the moment about how families have moved out of London and primary schools are struggling for numbers because it’s just too expensive to have children there. I suspect there are not many people on MW left living in central London, let alone single mothers working full time.

Oh I don't disagree. I'm embarassed at what my salary is for doing a not particularly taxing job. I suppose objectively it's a pressurised environment but after doing it for so many years, the pressure is water off a ducks back to me.
In fact, 90% of my role these days is delegation and if everyone else is doing their job well then I don't have much at all aside from showing up to client meetings and telling them what they need to hear.
But I did a STEM degree and masters and was quite strategic in my career choices as a graduate and moved up the ladder in a "corporate" career.

On the other hand, I have a sister who is a teacher and has no interest in the corporate world, earns the same salary in her late 30s I did as a 25 year old and who is supremely happy with her life. I suppose it's all about the choices you make, (and indeed the choices that are available to you - am aware these are two very different things).

Of that £20k gross per annum extra to manage three other people you will only see £7.3k per annum after tax = £610 pcm.

Unless you are in the financial position to salary sacrifice your top slice to pension, I wouldn’t bother accepting the offer and just have a usual stressful life without further stress of managing others.

I’m sorry, but 125k is demonstrably not a “very average salary”
Your advice to someone who is struggling to simply “change your circumstances” smacks of privilege.