Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

Give over. It needs calling out for exactly what it is. Just because he’s disabled does not make him or anyone else immune to criticism. He’s clearly a horrible nasty kid.

100% of my sympathies are with the poor innocent little girl and the OP.

OP I have been through sometime very similar when my DS was being bullied by a sen child. When communicating with the school, make sure your complaint is about the school not about the child in question.
This means not suggesting the child is expelled, removed from the class etc as actually that is nothing to do with you.
Your complaint is about how the school are reacting or not reacting to these incidents. Here are a few tips

1. Insist every incident is documents on an incident report and a copy given to you the same day.
2. You want the incident report to include how many staff were supervising on the playground / classroom at the time of the incident.
3. Ask, in writing, for more supervision of your daughter to be put in place at key times eg on the playground.
4. You want a detailed plan on how they will better safeguard your child with measurable targets and a review date. A copy of this should also be given to you.

If you havent already, you need to start the formal complaint procedure. Unofficial complaints dont hold much weight.

OP I haven’t read the whole thread but I think you’re doing amazingly and I don’t give a flying wotsit if the bullying kid is sweet baby Jesus himself, I’d have already given his mother a taste of his own medicine!! What a disgusting vile pair they make and you are way better well away from that literal shit show. Enjoy your little girl and the time you get together this week.

Sen or not. No child should be put through what your daughter has been through in a supposed safe space.

I have kids with asd and adhd. And they are brought up knowing right from wrong.

Sen is not an excuse to behave like this.

The LA won't care why you are deregistering your child, the same things will still apply.

The best way for the child to get the help they need is by staying in school because it builds up evidence that mainstream education isn't suitable and will (eventually) lead to a specialist placement. None of that will happen if the child is pulled from school, unfortunately that just isn't how the system works.

It is awful for everyone involved, including OP's child.

Exactly what James blonde says.

We need to get real.

I don't believe for a second that you have read it. People aren't blaming the child, they're blaming the adults involved. Feel free to feel disgusted if that's what floats your boat, but calling other participants in this discussion "disgusting" is both inaccurate and unwarranted.

Look I’m just going to be blunt. She’s 4. Just move her to a different school & wash your hands of it. At 4, it’s not mandatory for her to go to this school, she’ll still have a bunch of options for primary/secondary/university etc, the school she is at now really isn’t that important in the grand scheme. However by keeping her in this school, she’s just going to end up traumatised and her personality etc will change. It’s not worth trying to endure it.

Plus the side effect is the school will have to fix up if people are leaving specifically due to this other child. But you don’t need to be party to that or be made aware of that. Just let it go and move her elsewhere.

What an incredibly stupid thing to say. The bully boy sounds absolutely revolting. There is no excuse for that behaviour, whatever letters you want to give him.

I’m sorry this has happened to your little girl OP. You’re doing the right thing by moving her.

And this is part of the problem, unfortunately. The system, opaque and convoluted as it is, requires that parents are knowledgeable, capable and have access to time and money to fight for the right support for their child. I sit in relative privilege in this respect, in advocating for my daughter. I am educated, financially and emotionally stable, and capable (skills and knowledge) to be able to do this. Most of the SEN parents on mumsnet are the same. In real life though, children like this boy don't have the necessary support - from parents, from the local authority, from the school - to ensure that children like the op's daughter don't suffer as a result of failed inclusion policies and a severe lack of funding and alternative specialist provision.

Honestly I think this is the right decision. There have been so many incidents in just 4 weeks of class. They obviously aren’t able to keep her safe (the year 6 bodyguard solution is batshit), and he isn’t going to be excluded, so a move is the quickest and easiest way to put a stop to it.

Lots of kids move around in reception, she will soon settle down in the new school. I’d try to get her moved after half term if you can, and Christmas at the very latest.

Why shouldn't the op care about this boy getting 'what he needs'? This is the main issue.. 'oh nooo Don't make it about your child being regularly assaulted and abused!! Be kiiiinnd and worry about Why the abuser isn't getting their demands met!!'

I’ve not seen that at all. I’ve seen a mum who is understandably very upset that her child is being repeatedly bullied and that the school are not doing what they should to safeguard her. Disability or not, a small child shouldn’t be repeatedly being punched, hit on the head with a water bottle, having shit smeared on them etc.

To be honest, I wouldn't particularly care what his special needs are if a child of any age was repeatedly hurting my own child. He simply can't be allowed to bully another child. His needs don't outweigh another child's right to education in a safe environment. If the school can't prevent this disgusting behaviour from happening (and evidently they can't or won't), he needs to be placed elsewhere. At the bare minimum, he shouldn't be allowed around the children he's targeting.

I don't know how to advise you, OP, but I wish you luck in protecting your daughter and getting results.

Agree. Disabled children deserve reasonable accommodations. This doesn’t extend to smearing other children with shit with impunity.

My neighbours daughter was taken out of secondary school (abled child) by her mum but she was still allowed/be her right to have access to an education. She met up with one to one teachers in the local library first, and now in another school doing great. Paid by the LA.

Her mum did fight for it though. So why is it different if a SEN kid? And would the kid still be allowed education if the sch expelled him for bullying?

She has not disrespected the child at all throughout .

Meant to say 'why SHOULD op'!

Also, she is a little girl of 4. She is not a big strapping lad of 16 with a pair of fists to defend himself. You are doing your best and I wish you lots of luck. These incidences could have long lasting effects on your little girl and she needs to see that you are her champion.

The more I think about the situation, the more pissed off I get.
For several reasons. Firstly, because of my own childhood experience; secondly, because of what I could even do if my DC were bullied by a SEN kid (apparently nothing, just move them and pray there’s no bullying in the new school).
And thirdly , if this is common nowadays (and judging by the comments here, it is), I’m really worried about how it affects the perception of ND people. I was diagnosed with ADHD in my 30s, and rest assured, I never smeared poo on my peers as a child.
But if parents are faced with situations like the OP’s, surely it won’t make them feel more inclusive towards the ND community in general? Nor will it for the bullied children, if they’re old enough to understand that the bully is “untouchable.”
Using SEN as an excuse for such behaviour inevitably affects how neurodivergent people are perceived. Yes, people judge, and yes, they draw conclusions. Let’s be honest — a normal parent will try to keep their child away from a SEN kid if they believe “SEN” means a free pass for bad behaviour. Adults will do the same.
And absolutely not all ND people are dangerous or unable to control themselves. But we’ll all suffer if certain behaviours aren’t addressed. It’s inevitable

I have two autistic children too. My son was violent when he was younger and my daughter has been bullied on off. My son had consequences, had to apolgise, got support learning to regulate himself. It's been a very long time since he's lashed out at another pupil but it took hard work from me and him to get there.

Only last week he was refusing to do his work at school 2 days in a row. After a stern telling off from me, me speaking to his teacher and telling him to ring me straight away if he refused again, losing his tablet time at home..... he's not refused to do it again

I feel like some parents use autism and adhd as an excuse to not parent their children.... and children lean into that... my son tried using the excuse that in the past my DD had refused to do her work.... but it was a different scenario, her refusal came after being attacked by a child and she was excused from her work as she was so upset.... my son was just trying it on hoping he could get away with it

I’m just seeing this for the first time. I just wanted to say how sorry I am for what your little girl is going through. I’m the mum of an autistic boy myself and I’d be devastated if he was doing this kind of thing. The system as we have it isn’t serving your daughter or other children with special needs very well x

My son had some home tutoring paid by the LA too but it is usually temporary and with a plan in process. It also isn't suitable in all situations and I can't imagine would be suitable in a situation where the child has severe behavioural needs.

If it was to happen, a plan would have to be in process and since he only recently started school, that is probably just at the very beginning stages. LA dependent too, they may not offer it as an option when they are as young as 4.

It also doesn’t seem he’s just lashing out following an autistic meltdown. He’s targeting her by sounds of it.