Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

"and at that stage he is quite unlikely to unless he has very profound disabilities"

That is incorrect. Children can be diagnosed before school age without being profoundly autistic.

The title is quite literally ‘autistic child’? I didn’t realise he was only ‘maybe’ autistic, in which case the title needs to be changed?
I have not seen any comments that misogynistic or claiming that the girl should just put up with it? So I’m guessing they have been deleted too.

His mum has said he's autistic to OP. Of course, there's no way of knowing if he has a formal diagnosis but even if he doesn't, no diagnosis doesn't make an autistic chid any less autistic.

They sometimes avoid diagnosing ASD even when it's obvious from a very early age. Cynical me thinks that's due to resources. It's why many parents get told their obviously autistic child has a cognitive delay when they don't and language and play skills in the normal range when this is severely delayed. Then child can't cope with no support in mainstream, trauma, out of school, fight for EHCP, cost of independent reports to find out what is actually going on, tactical games, refusal to assess, no education for ages, appeal, more tactics from LA, specialist school placement or EOTAS. Which costs LAs a lot of money.

EOTAS/EOTIS via EHCPs are only legally possible if it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school/college. LAs dislike it. Most parents have to appeal, particularly for a comprehensive package. Done correctly, it isn’t the easy or cheap option. It is every bit as expensive as independent SS. Sometimes more. Large parts of society also dislike it because they are bespoke packages including types of provision they don't think DC should have.

I have 2 DC with EOTAS/EOTIS packages. It isn’t the easy the option.

LAs like to perpetuate the myth that it is acceptable for s19 provision to only be a few hours a week. It saves them money. The law actually mandates a full-time education, except where that is not appropriate for the child, and a few hours a week does not fulfil that duty. The LGO is also clear 5 hrs a week isn’t sufficient. LAs ignore and hope parents don’t know the law, don’t know how to challenge the LA’s decision, feel they are unable to take it further…

Hello everyone,

just thought I'd post an update.
DD starts her new school next week. I've spoken extensively to the head about my concerns about the boy in question joining the school in year 3 and she has assured me that due to what's happened and the investigations that have taken place, he will not be placed in her class when that time comes. Hopefully he won't even be in the school but that's just something I can only hope for, I did not say that to the head of course.

a few of DDs nursery friends are in the bigger primary school and she's going into a class where she has 4 nursery friends who she's thrilled to see.

I did end up getting a very half arsed message from the mother offering me to drop said cardigan to her house where she will wash it and give it back. I declined her offer (days and days later) and informed her that I'm moving DD due to her sons attacks on my DD and the school failing to keep my daughter safe away from him.

she read it and sent a thumbs up emoji..

anyway, new start, he's not my problem anymore nor is she or the school.

just wanted to update. :)

@HollandAndCooper Well done for protecting and advocating for your daughter💕
I hope her new school nurtures her and gives her the introduction to education you planned and hoped for.

Well done OP.
Delighted she is happy to see some little friends she knows.
Wishing you the very best.

Ah that’s very good news @HollandAndCooper .

A thumbs up emoji!?

Yep! Didn't even type and reply to it she did one of those 'reaction' things you can do on WhatsApp

clearly wouldn't have ever got anywhere with her so best left alone 🤣

Good news about DD's new school and that she already has some friends there.
Hope she settles well, she deserves it.

Just curious though, if you were the mother and you had a DS who was injuring others, how would you have replied?
Apology and empathy would have been good but I don't see what else she could say or do, really?

Well she could have done exactly that, a heartfelt apology at the very least.

I would have sincerely apologised for my child’s appalling, violent behaviour. I would also have checked her daughter was OK and wished her well.

Best of luck to your little girl, and very well done to you for removing her from that situation. 💐

So you would apologise for your child's appalling violent disability?

And what would you say to the LA for not ensuring correct provision, thereby not ensuring everyones' safety?

Regardless of whether a child had SEND or not, yes I would apologise. I know people who do this, they still understand it is never acceptable to physically harm another.

I would personally home educate my own child if they were constantly harming other people’s children and/or members of staff.

Well done OP. I wish your little girl well.Xx

of course I absolutely would apologise.

regardless of this kids SEN he has still assaulted attacked and injured my daughter and sneered poo on them.
I'm ND myself and my DD is in the pathway. I'd be utterly mortified if anyone ever came to me with this. (I am not autistic and neither is DD btw)

do you think my daughter deserves an apology? I don't care for one for me but my little girl who's come home with red marks, bruises and shit on her cardigan?

theres an assumption on this thread that the kids horrid behaviour is down to his SEN. A person with SEN can also just be an unpleasant person. An also be a bully.

he made targeted, premeditated, planned attacks. Lashing out because he's overwhelmed or over stimulated is completely different. Going into a loo and thinking 'I'm going to shit on my finger and go and smear it on that child that I make cry' is horrid, concerning behaviour. Regardless of what may be going on he is a bully and has bullied my daughter.

so yes, I absolutely would apologise. I'd replace the cardigan or transfer money to buy a new one. It's the least I could do if another mother was washing my kids shit off their cardigan. Or they (like me) threw it away.

Yes you should absolutely apologise for violence. I can't believe for a second anyone would think it's ok not to apologise. The impact is the same on my daughter regardless of a SEN diagnosis or not.

I can't believe anybody would think otherwise! It's an apology, no one's asking for their left kidney and first born child.

Tbh at this point Id be considering whether a 111 report would make a difference. Kids can be rough and SEND children can struggle more than others but this isnt a sensory incident he took his own faeces got out the bathroom looked for her and smeared it on her while calling her names.

This isnt a SEN issue its a bullying one. Its unacceptable.

Id advise going to the meeting calm, with your key factual points but also tell them what you want. "Sanctions" isnt an answer, if you want him suspended or excluded say that.

Id have a list of specific incidents and questions i.e. how did he get from the toilet to DD with feaces? Whats their explanation for him looking for DD and behaving this way? if they say "oh well SEN" ask what theyve tried and what their suggestions to address this? And i would inform them you are going to start notifying LA and 111 about any and all violent incidents because this latest one was an assult that carries biohazard risk.

Youre doing great for DD, keep going

EHE makes it harder for parents to secure support for their DC with SEN, so, personally, I wouldn’t EHE. That doesn’t mean it is acceptable for OP’s DD to be treated as she has been. Of course it isn’t.

Thank you for the update @HollandAndCooper - you're doing a brilliant job. Kudos.

I'm so pleased that your daughter has friends at the new school.

The above quote is what I asked OP.
I think people are not reading my post properly..

I also would have apologised. I said apology and empathy would have been good.
But questioned what else she could do?