Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

OP has already said he throws sticks at other children when they are waiting to be let in at school drop off. Unless other parents talk, OP isn't to know if her child is the only child having issues with this boy.

"Yes children aren't adults but these violent boys will grow into adults"

And the violent girls will also grow into adults.

What would you call someone who hits you, calls you names and smears faeces on you? I'd call that abuse and the person perpetrating it an abuser. In the case of four year olds, I'd also be taking steps to separate the children and I would never, ever expect the child's mother to clean another childs faeces of her clothes. IMHO the child's parent should either have done that or replaced the jumper. Otherwise what you are effectively saying is 'he can all over you because you don't deserve anything else.

Little bullies grow up into bigger bullies if they're not stopped. He may well be an unhappy child but he also knows that he has the power to get rid of another child. I truly hope there are consequences for him, because otherwise it will grow as he does.

I don't agree. I think it's awful and the school needs to be putting stuff in place now and not cause any child MH issues. No child should ever be isolated. I have a child with severe trauma from this and made a suicide attempt and the impact on our lives has been profound.

Yep.

The LA decided until my son's EHCP was through as he needed 2:1 TA support that 1 hour of home tutoring a day was sufficient enough as an alternative to the full time education he's entitled to.

Even with a great school, SENCO etc the LA are knowingly difficult to deal with. It was a right battle. All for him to simply access full time education.

You can refer to his behaviour as being completely unacceptable and unsafe without labelling a very small child as an abuser and comparing him to adult violent prisoners etc, its just not the same thing. As I have repeatedly said, they should get a proper 1-1 ta or a special school placement for the little boy, non of that requires him to be demonized, he is incredibly young and to be showing that kind of behaviour at his age could well mean something serious is going on at home, we just don't know.

Children aren't adults.

Children with developmental disorders and delays will be developmentally disordered or delayed unless they receive the right support in their developmental and formative years. That support often comes while the child is in an educational setting and not flying under the radar. This support then mitigates the likelihood of them growing into the adults you are describing.

If an autistic adult can't work without acting upon violence then the chances are they'd be assessed not capable for work, but you can't write a 4 year old off as never being able to enter the working world when no immediate support is available and there's a ridiculous beaureacratic, lengthy legal process that has to be adhered to in order to get them that support, that is completely out of that childs hands.

Moving your daughter is a choice you can make, and I would make that choice if it was my child, but you seem to be angry at the fact you can't control that this boy won't be excluded yet rather than simply that the school have failed your daughter and this child by not providing adequate supervision. It's just baying for blood at this point.

I note your points. Can I ask what you think should have been happening to the little girl who's been targeted? What steps do you think should the school have been taking to keep her safe and able to learn not just academically but about life and making friends? How would you explain what has happened to her and reassure her that it wasn't her fault and she didn't deserve it to happen and that, most of all, she will be safe at school?

Absolutely. Although I bet that when the right provision is put in place his behaviours will reduce significantly.

They should have got the TA to actually supervise the little boy all day, staying with him constantly, not wandering off and leaving him alone to harm OPs little girl. The teacher should have talked to her and explained that they were going to make sure that she wasnt hurt again, and then made sure that happened. They could have explained to her that what happened to her was wrong, that its never ok for someone to hurt you, and that none of it was her fault. You can do all that without calling four year olds abusers and comparing them to violent men. The school are the ones who are ultimately responsible for this, they massively failed in their duty to keep the children safe.

of course, but this thread isn't about a violent girl. It's about a violent boy.

there is also an epidemic of violence against women and girls. There isn't an epidemic of violence of women against boys.

completely incomparable

I'm so glad we can agree on what should have happened and what didn't happen. In the end, that is more important than what we call the perpetrator. Can I ask who you think should have washed or replaced the jumper and if you can see the symbolism of the OP being expected to do it?

Of course I'm angry. I'm angry at the school, and at the child. It's hard not to be when my daughter is coming home terrified and visibly injured.

im angry at the fact that HE AND THE SCHOOL have caused a great deal of upheaval for my little girl and that she has now left the school. Im angry at the fact that he could possibly link 'if I bully and pick on and attack these kids, they will leave.' What sort of a message does that send to a violent boy?

nobody knows what's going on in his mind. I feel his capabilities have been given the benefit of the doubt far far too much when these are calculated, premeditated and unprovoked attacks. There's posters on here that were bullied 60 years ago and still have the scars. I have every right to be angry, and I have every right to be angry at the school and the boy, and his mother who simply glares on watching him throw sticks at people in the morning and bangs on the notice board. I'm angry that the mother hasn't even offered to replace the cardigan regardless of me moving her to another school. That I'm expected to scrape shit stains off my daughters cardigan that her son smeared on her.

but it's by the by now. She's out of there and I've been the only one to keep her safe from all of this. It's been a huge eye opener and a huge let down. I was firmly never a fan of home schooling, I can totally see why some parents do it now.

im stepping away from this thread now as I've done what I needed to do to keep her safe. And the excuses for his behaviour and all this gentle inclusiveness to enable violence and abuse is just not needed. A few people have assumed his behaviour is down to his SEN. He could, genuinely, just be a bully. Who knows? And he's now had a victory on making a little girl leave when he notices she isn't there to target anymore. Hopefully he doesn't move onto another child.

thank you do everybody who's offered advice, support and well wishes for my little girl. I really really appreciate it. There's been so many of you on both of these threads and you all gave me the push to remove her from the school.

stepping away now - have good weekends all!

Ideally the parents of the little boy! I think that it probably comes down to the school being generally too lazy/useless to think about it rather than them meaning anything in particular by it though

It's also possible that the school asked and his parents said no/ignored the requests. Unfortunately, I don't see how the school can enforce parents to wash another child's clothing or replace it.

Yes thats true

My experience is the secondary sector, as I've said upthread. Unfortunately, the proper interventions are rarely put in place, in my experience.

I had written a very long post, but it was too outing. All I can say is that - in my opinion - if interventions are not put in place in the early years, then there is a tragedy waiting to happen.

At my old place of work, the school would have replaced the item if the parent refused to do so.

I think that's the right thing to do. I'm not surprised that this school haven't at least offered though.

Of course a school can't enforce anything, but the attitude of 'here you go, it's up to you to wash another child's shit off your child's jumper' was what left me thinking 'some things can't be fixed. Get her out of there.'

I don't think that happened because the OP was given the shitty jumper in a plastic bag at the end of the school day. My guess is it didn't even occur to them, along with a lot of other things.

Do much more with what money? All these comments that he needs a 1 to 1 - where from? Schools are at breaking point, EHCP's are taking years to come through, and until they do there is no money to provide him with extra support.
Reeves's NI increase and cuts to council funding have put schools in a dire position.

To anyone who doesn't believe me - apply to be a governor for your local primary to fully understand the current landscape which schools are working in.

I agree that's the most likely scenario.

If the boy has a formal diagnosis, the school will be frightened of antagonising the parent and being accused of discrimination against the disabled.

I've seen this in action in the secondary sector: it wasn't the fault of a 12 yr old that that they held a sharp tool against the throat of another 12 yr old, apparently. Mind you, if I'd been the parent of the victim, I'd have created merry hell and I'd have insisted on the police being called. I suspect that the parents were scared of being accused of discrimination.

Then there was this case, where a pupil attacked a teacher. On the local FB page, the boy's neighbour blamed the teacher.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-45940788

While I was searching for the Lochgelly case, I stumbled across this in FB. This is definitely a separate incident. Note the victim blaming in the comments: "What did she do?"

www.facebook.com/groups/1306308666613479/posts/1762608804316794/