Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

😔 it's awful that the LA and government are okay with children being abused until the very last moment. And there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.

even though I'm moving her I am still making a lot of noise, making complaints and contacting governors, I'll write to the MP. But for what? More children to be failed and the higher up turning a blind eye to child abuse?

i don't know what the answer is but it's a totally broken society 😔

"She can check his hands and enforce hand washing which all good early years settings should be doing as many 4 year olds will leave toilets with dirty hands and need reminding as they’re often learning to toilet themselves without mum for the first time."

Yes if early years settings don't do this, poo on hands is a frequent occurrence and although it is unusual to wipe it on someone else, it will be on the things that pupils touch.

Schools should be free to easily/immediately exclude/isolate based upon safeguarding. The LEAs can then worry about their legal requirements to educate the problem children.

It shouldn't be an individual mainstream school's responsibility to provision education to violent children.

This is waaaay beyond safeguarding.

and there are many parents of SEND children who do the same and unfortunately get nowhere as well. The vast majority of parents who know that their child can't cope in mainstream know that it is setting their child up to fail and to potentially lash out but have little choice but to go along with it because it is the only way to fight for an appropriate placement for their child.

It is awful all round.

Its absolutely shocking amd honestly makes me consider homeschooling. If a child were coming into school with those injuries then they would be removed from the home and quiet rightly so. However when this happens at school you are supposed to just accept it?

Agree.

This is a very unusual situation. In my experience a 1-to-1 TA is enough to properly supervise small children with SEND, including those who are violent etc. My son would be accompanied to the toilet, ensured his hands were washed and dried etc.

All the primary schools I’ve had experience with have easily dealt with and managed children like this. I’m guessing this is OPs first and only experience of a primary so maybe doesn’t realise just how useless they are being, and that there will be many other competent schools that won’t fail her daughter like this one is.

I also agree.

My son has 2:1 TA support and they never leave his side during the school day.

This is the only way sadly, you're doing the right thing and at least it's another parent adding their voice. The system is completely and utterly broken and causing so much trauma in children. Good luck, I hope someone listens.

Yep - and then the poor kids are so traumatised by their experiences that they often don't recover and end up costing the LA an absolute fortune anyway. And it puts a lot of pressure on other services too. A stitch in time saves 9 isn't something that it is understood.

It is and nope I’m absolutely not.

OP, when my youngest started school there was a very bossy little girl telling everyone else at the table what to do.
She was annoying my daughter.
I sat my daughter down and worked on her eye to eye contact. Every single day we practiced her telling me to " stop bossing me, you are NOT the boss of me, I'm telling teacher and my mummy"
She got very good at it and really enjoyed it.

Well day 4 she went in and put her firmly in her place.
It was something we kept up. Looking people in the eye and saying "no, stop it, etc.".

A really good lesson for secondary school as she has very firm boundaries, says what she means, and has never been bullied in any way.

Perhaps role play is something she might benefit from, to help her build confidence and navigate situations where she needs to assert herself.

She is so lucky to have such a great mum.

The answer is more special schools, more prus, and more properly trained competent 1-1 tas. The ta the little boy was allocated was obviously useless, a decent one would be perfectly capable of stopping a 4 year old from harming other children. If it were an older child that would be different but in that case he would be able to go to a pru if necessary. The reason why there aren't enough of any of those things is cost cutting.

This is what I don't understand about what other posters are saying about evidence etc, surely that is more than enough evidence that this boy doesn't belong in a mainstream school?

The fact that they cannot ask a repeatedly violent child to leave the school is ridiculous and it needs changing.

This is a really good point about the TA! Also a SaLT could really help work on social communication and behaviours. But getting one in is like asking for the moon on a stick - so many are now independent.

The evidence is related to what school are putting in place to support the child. It isn't possible that they have tried everything they will be expected to have tried in just 6 weeks.

No, sadly it's not enough evidence. Schools (& parents) are blocked by LAs pretty much every step of the way. Schools get treated pretty badly too. Although it doesn't sound like this school is doing much apart from brushing everything under the carpet.

I know it's about money and resources but some schools seem to be much better than others so is it? Or they used to be. It's a long time since we went through all of this.

Some schools are absolutely better about it than others. They will fight just as hard as the parents in battling with LA's.

My son's school was excellent with putting support in place, applying for funding as soon as they could, sorting a EHCP as soon as they could, battling with the LA etc but sadly, they seem to be a minority.

It isn't. It's the LEA's.

Again, that's ridiculous. It shouldn't be like that, schools should be able to exclude violent children.

They have to show that they have legally attempted to meet the educational needs of a disabled child and that an exclusion isn't based on the school failing to do that as opposed to the school trying everything they can but it not working out because mainstream is unsuitable for the child.

That can't change unless the law regarding educating disabled children is changed.

A pp seemed to suggest that no other children are affected; in actual fact, the OP has said that the boy is also throwing sticks at other children while the mother fails to intervene.

At best, this suggests that his mother has given up.

I would hope not, but how do you gather evidence of issues if the issues are prevented? And, being fair to teachers and TA's who are pretty much up against impossible odds, any mum knows that you cannot keep an eye on children every second when you've got 2 of them, let alone a whole class. A person who is looking for an opportunity to harm will find one if the target is available, and there have already been multiple incidents so I am left with the question of 'how many incidents do you need to act?' That in turn leads to 'how much harm is being done to the target while you're acting?' If I'm right, then it's a one class intake so they can't move OP's daughter into another class.

Either way, she's out of there, thanks heavens. I'm not sure how I'd feel if I had a child in that school and that class but happy wouldn't come into it.

I think you mean 'they shouldn't do that'. Unfortunately it does happen.

Safeguarding all children should and must trump individual disability. Including disabled children in mainstream school's shouldn't negatively impact the safeguarding of any other children.

Problem children should be isolated or kept at home until the LEA provides a solution, rather than allowing the other children to be physically attacked or traumatised by extreme behaviour.

(My brother is brain damaged and had a classroom assistant all through secondary school).