Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

Or he may not. If he's able to smear faeces over another child I would argue that he's not being effectively supervised and another, smaller child is being put at risk. Both children have rights.

He clearly isn’t being supervised properly which is not his fault.

You won’t know if he has. It will be a private matter and when held in school unlikely that other parents will know.

Nor, however, is it the victim's fault. From experience, I know you are right to say that the victim's parents will not be told what is going on and how or if their child will be protected, so their only realistic option is to remove their child from the school.

Is that right? Of course not. Is that fair? Again, of course not. Does it encourage a child to feel safe? Of course not. Does it encourage parents to believe that a school will act fairly? Of course not. Does that have any link with schools complaining that parents don't respect them? I couldn't possibly comment.

"Well he has a 1:1 which the TA is stepping in as."

It doesn't sound like the TA was anywhere near him when this happened.

She had a meeting.

No they dont, but alot if posters are making huge assumptions,
And also seem to think it's a simple matter of just removing a child from the school because they say so, it isn't process,s have to be legally followed and another suitable setting needs to be found all of which takes time.

I'm sorry but comparing ADHD being distracting to the class compared to the class witnessing distressing abuse and someone abusing my daughter is absolutely nuts.

the 121 isn't doing her job properly you say? A 121 posted on here that she literally turned around for 2 seconds and was clubbed on the head and physically injured by a boy. Which happened in a flash. 121s aren't security. They aren't a body guard and a lot of the time these boys are stronger than them.

which is another reason why I'm moving her.

After all avenues have been tried for a good amount of time in the setting he or she is in. A few weeks into the September term with clearly no robust 121 measures is not that.

The TA can't go into the cubicle with him while he has a poo.

It’s not just boys.

Plenty of 121 s do a good job day by in and day out.

ADHD can be hugely challenging for other children to be around and can impact their education hence it appearing on Many MN threads .What I’m saying is you don’t just boot out challenging children with SEN that impact the school life of others you help and support . One day it could be your child who wants that support and understanding .

She can check his hands and enforce hand washing which all good early years settings should be doing as many 4 year olds will leave toilets with dirty hands and need reminding as they’re often learning to toilet themselves without mum for the first time .

Did it result in her being reassured that her child was protected? No. Should she have been expected to wash another childs' faeces from her daughter's clothes? Can you not see the symbolism of that expectation? Shouldn't the boy's mother at least have been expected to clean or replace the jumper?

You speak of gathering evidence. I've been told that too, and in practice it meant that they would document continuing attacks rather than stopping them happening. I did not and do not and never will think it is fair to effectively allow a child to be harmed.

Not without plenty of evidence which suggests they've tried everything and the behaviour is continuing and again, that isn't going to be happening after 6 weeks.

I don't think anyone thinks that do they?

It appears to be a countrywide school policy. The rights of violent children are placed above those of the quiet passive majority to learn in a calm and safe environment.

The education system has been taken over by people that believe the violent disruptive children are all that matters and the other kids will just take care of themselves.

No it hasn't,but every child does have a legal right to an education and there are laws and processes to be followed I'm.not sure why some posters can't grasp that?
That doesn't mean other children should suffer though.

I’m so sorry to hear what you experienced. Children are absolutely capable of bullying and deliberate violence.

Unfortunately, too many make excuses, never gave them in the wrong and show more empathy to wrongdoers than victims. It’s ruining society.

What an utterly ridiculous post

The system is slow to get support for children who need it because it costs money and the LA will drag their heels until they have no choice. They often want evidence that a child can't cope with mainstream school which they will reject until the child actually goes to mainstream school and spends several years falling apart and in some cases, hurting other children.

This means that some disabled children are set up to fail from the start and that all children are being failed one way or another because you then get situations like the OP and her child should never have experienced what she has.

My daughter does currently need support and understanding. She is being abused by another child. And I am giving her exactly that.

and no doubt it's distressing to see, so the other children in the class way well need support and understanding from being around this violent boy.

But being kicked twice leaving bruises, being punched on her cheek leaving a mark, being clubbed round the head with a metal water bottle leaving a lump, and having poo smeared in her is abuse happening again and again. It was allowed to happen again and again. All I the name of inclusivity.'

mind blowing

I think this is an unusual situation then if a 1-to-1 can’t supervise or control one 4-year-old. My son’s TA did a perfectly good job preventing any incidents, despite his low level of understanding, delays, violent tendencies and being prone to huge meltdowns. Ditto the other SEN child in his class, a girl, who could also be violent- she had some incidents before support was put in place but nothing after once she was appropriately supervised.

Also having the support in place often means they help the children develop better strategies etc etc A few years later my son is no longer violent at all (although still very delayed) and a joy to be around. A lot of this is down to his school and amazing TAs who are experienced and knowledgeable.

So once again it just seems like really poor form from your DDs school and I can absolutely see why you want to move her. This is really not a typical incident with SEN children. I doubt you will regret your decision.

I think the legal right should be a violent child that's bullying and abusing others should have an education, away from other children.

there are many posters on here with trauma and PTSD, and scars 60 years on from PP below.

you can shout and scream that this child has a right to an education in this school, but it doesn't make it morally correct.

violence against women and girls is starting in schools, the evidence is clear. And this violent boys 'right' should not belong anywhere near children he's abusing.

It's not, and by saying that you are downplaying people's lived experiences and trauma.

I know. It's completely unacceptable.

The LA is only interested in spending money when they are forced to. If it is very obvious that a child won't be able to cope in mainstream, then the child shouldn't be forced into mainstream as a means of evidence that they can't cope. It's ridiculous and needs to change but unfortunately, especially with the lack of special school places, I don't see that happening any time soon.