Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

A cognitively able child with repeated violent behaviour belongs in a PRU

There are no PRUs for primary aged pupils in my County. They are generally a KS3/4 thing.

Thanks, this is what I'm hoping for.

My boy doesn't tend to meltdown at school, he saves that for at home, but he does shutdown and goes completely non-verbal.

He can however be a bit unaware of his own presence sometimes, he can get giddy and in your face, it's like he's either completely disengaged, or completely overwhelmingly engaged.

He will require a 121 anyway because he's a flight risk and has absolutely no risk awareness, and just doesn't speak before he acts, or speak much at all.

Relative works in the same school we're trying to get in to, but it's the best school in the area for his primary need profile.

My post giving examples was deleted. All of the deleted posts on this thread, including yours, use language that attacks this child in ableist ways, but repeating this language will result in deletion. It would be good if mnhq could point out what you and others have said that requires deletion, as you clearly don’t understand what you’re doing that is wrong.

Tbh that would put me off a bit if I were you. It would be awful if she got settled and happy in a new school only for the same thing to happen again. Are there no other schools nearby? Though I suppose if the school you are thinking of has more than one class per year you could always ask for your dd to be moved into the other class if that did happen? 💐

If the Head Teacher won't act, write to the governors. Your poor DD.

Between this and the thread where a ND boy Sa’d a girl, I despair. I have friends with ND children who would never get away with this behaviour. My friends didn’t have an easy time parenting but they brought up children with a strong sense of justice who would never dream of acting like this. This boy is allowed to abuse OP’s daughter and it’s still being defended and some even blame her 4 year old daughter on this thread, which is vile. It’s frankly disgusting when we are in a place where the needs of the perpetrator are of more concern than those of the victim. Let’s say the school did put robust measures in place to protect the daughter, or say OP is moving her as she says: do people not think he just moves on to the next target? How many more kids have to end up with broken bones and literal shit smeared on them? The boy may have challenged that require extra measures put in place, but does that mean everyone else is just meant to accept the abuse? Would people defending this be happy if it was their child ending up smeared with shit and needing to go to a&e!?

I agree and in my LA we have several PRU,s we also have several autism Hubs but my LA I a better than most and SEN provision UK wise is very area dependent every child deserves am education what the but that's not the Ops concern she needs to know her child is safe guarded in school.

The moderators aren't omniscient. They delete the most complained about posts. It's a bit rich you claiming that deleted posts are some sort of verdict on attitudes to inclusion. It is no less objectionable when you and your little posse draw a link between ND and abusive behaviour. Grossly unfair and far more ablist than anything you've complained about but it's only others that need to reflect, isn't it? Definitely not you.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I have email exchanges with mnhq that confirm deletions on my request. The type of language is where posters have indicated that the little boy is ‘damaged’ in some way, often with more descriptive and unkind/inappropriate language.
I do feel for the OP and absolutely agree that she is right to advocate for her child, as it is awful to be subjected to behaviour like this, however I think the grown-ups need to remember that we are talking about two four year old small children, so it is important to remember that this little boy, who clearly needs more support than he currently has, is also a child.

This child has learned this from someone else, and this behaviour is not SEN this is sadistic.

I am going to say it again, teaching your kid to stand up for herself is not a bad thing. You can be assertive without violence i.e. STOP COMING NEAR ME, repeated over and over again. If the child comes near her, use a chair or anything to put in the middle of them.

Everyone is distracted by the SEN, but I guarentee this kid is witnessing some abuse somewhere (could even be television).

OP, you should get your daughter involved in a martial art if her confidence has taken a knock. A proper one; Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, or an MMA gym with a kids class. Both are very safe, no head contact and skill-based training for young kids.

It'll do wonders for her confidence and in time she'll have the physical and mental tools to deal with a bully herself.

You'd be entitled to think it but my son had a SSEN (Predecessor to EHCP) from when he was 3. He wasn't 'allowed' to start school with the others because the original learning support resigned 2 days before the start of term. The LA told me that he didn't 'have' to be in school until the term following his 5th birthday and supported the school. Later found that the school had the funding for him and used it to pay for a replacement TA for the class he should have been in because theirs was off sick. When he did start, he was bullied. He's selectively mute under pressure. No one ever told us what was going on and it came out when we went to the LGO. LGO found in our favour, but it didn't give him back what he could and should have had and has left him (and me) with a lasting distrust of LA's and schools. Academically, I know they do what's best for the school as a whole. In practice,kids can be and are thrown to the wolves, especially if the aggressor has a pupil premium while the other child comes from a 'nice' middle class family so there are no social workers to fight for them.

(Happy ending. He was home educated and has almost finished an OU degree while building a business replacing screens and repairing tablets and kindles and games consoles. His dad taught him how to do it because he used to throw stuff when he got frustrated. Loads of families with autistic kids use him because they don't feel judged and he understands that machines are precious to some and kids are devastated .)

Both kids need help, but in my experience the focus tends to be on the bully not the bullied. It gets worse because people believe the help is there and all too often it wasn't.

Exactly this!

Hi all,
Yes, just to pick up on this, we have made quite a few deletions on this thread (reported by a fair few MNers) because we felt that the descriptions of the child in question crossed the line into ableism and were also tbh just a bit grim. This is a site for peer support and we very much understand the upset but there are limits to what is a reasonable and compassionate way to talk about children, especially those with special needs, so we would ask you to bear that in mind from now on.

This is where you need to get everything in writing, and when it gets to that stage you write an annual letter explaining the past and asking for confirmation that he will NOT be in the same class and what steps will be taken to safeguard your child given the past history. You will be viewed as the mum from hell, but there's also an argument to be made that a good school would do it anyway. The thing about further afield is the extra load on you getting her to and fro and making it harder for play dates. You don't deserve that either.

@Keepingthingsinterestingyour post has been deleted now. But let me get this right. In one sentence, you’re complaining about this little girl being assaulted. Then in the next sentence, you’re saying you’d much prefer if the little boy was smacked, which is essentially assault too?

Wow.

some even blame her 4 year old daughter on this thread, which is vile

Really? If so that is awful, but I’ve not seen any of these posts?

Yes there have been some, more on the other thread but there was one on this thread too, saying my DD was probably provoking the child or hitting him first.

when the staff involved have confirmed, from what they've witnessed, which is nearly all incidents, that all incidents attacks are unprovoked and targeted.

Hi,

thanks for the suggestion.
my brother has a professional marshal arts license, and is also her gymnastics coach in her team, he is going to spend some time with her in the next few weeks to teach her some basic self defence and then from there work on her skills.

DD is a timid little girl, she is confident when it comes to adult interaction but can be a little more reserved when she's in groups of children she doesn't know, and sort of 'scans' everybody until she feels comfortable. Despite her probably having ADHD (I'm diagnosed and was at 7) she's a rule follower. Before anyone thinks I'm making sweeping generalisations I'm not, I struggled at school hugely and was branded the naughty kid who didn't listen or sit still. But DD although has a lot of my traits is a sensitive little girl who strives to impress and follow rules. My worry with telling her to hit back, would be that she wouldn't do it hard enough or lack confidence or it would perhaps add fuel to the fire. So my DB is going to be working on this with her so she feels confident to defend herself. Many many kids in the class are there for similar reason, just as many who do it as a hobby. They / the parents want their children to learn self defence due to bullying and abuse.

it's really sad.

Sometimes, people's need to be kind and inclusive (which is so much easier when it's not your child) means they forget about the victim. Ignore them.

You can ignore I'm suggesting too because it's incredibly hard to do, as I know too well because my DD ended up in hospital in reception year as a result of bullying, is to back off from this thread and focus on your little girl. Get her into the other school as fast as you can on the getting on the bike when she falls off principle. Stress that she is the winner because... infill every reason you can come up with. Go full on Winnie the Pooh with her by reminding her that "You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, and smarter than you think." Reading Winnie the Pooh with her is never a bad thing either.

Face the future when it needs facing, keep the paperwork and document it all and walk away from the last 6 weeks with dignity and grace and be kind to yourself as well. I felt such an awful failure when it happened and I wish I'd done what I'm advising you to rather than trying to fix the unfixable. Good luck and hugs to you and your daughter.

Thankfully it seems like this thread has gone much better as I can’t see any replies blaming your DD, nor calling what happened acceptable in any way. So that’s good.

I am not uneducated at all about SEN. I am in fact a teacher, and have previously been a SENCO.

I still absolutely believe that children should not have to deal with violent children at school, regardless of whether or not they have SEN.

I saw the post that OP is referring to. It exists.

”We only have OP’s side of events, we don’t know if her daughter has been teasing this boy but obviously OP won’t admit if this is the case . She may come out of the meeting finding out her DD is no angel! I’ve worked with children with special needs for a long time and more often than not it’s the one claiming to be the victim that’s started it all!”