Page 16 | Autistic child attacking DD part 2

HollandAndCooper · 2025-10-15T08:14:09+00:00

Original thread here: [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share]] Hi Everyone, me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning. DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly. well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2. the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account. it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet. he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan. a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it. i have a meeting this morning. I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue. please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe. so far the child has: kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this. she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore. i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed. My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now. thanks in advance.

Yesimmoaningaboutbenefits · 15/10/2025 21:52

Lougle · 15/10/2025 21:20

I do think this is being handled appallingly, but I find it interesting that a lot of people think the answer is a special school. It's as if they think that it would be ok if this child was smearing poo on a child with a learning disability...the issue here is one of adequate supervision, whether in mainstream or special school, an alternative provision or elsewhere.

This is woefully ignorant.

Special school is often suggested for difficult behaviour because difficult behaviour is often exasperated by unsuitable environments. If a suitable school is provided, the behaviours drastically decrease.

There's also smaller classes, almost always less than 10 (although even that has been increased in recent years. Used to be around 6 per class).
And more adults. A lot more adults. Primary mainstream could be 1 adult for 34 children in KS2. Specialist could be 5 adults for 10 children.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/10/2025 21:54

Nayyercheekyfeckers · 15/10/2025 21:40

Just curious, but why wouldn't you want your DD being used as a deterrent to bullies if she was in year 6 and paired with a younger child? That's quite common in schools and both the younger and older children benefit from it. Also, tbh, it sounds like the school have listened and responded by now ensuring that he is accompanied by a TA. It's pretty common for there to be children with SENs in all schools so you may find the same issues with a different school. The boy probably can't help it and it's hard to say how much the parents are to blame. You could recognise the need for your daughter to be safe whilst also acknowledging that the mother might be doing as much as she can under the circumstances, even if she's parenting a different child with different needs to yours in a different way. If the head described the actions of a 4 year old with SEN as bullying, then I would have concerns.

Edited

So she gets to be kicked, bitten, stabbed with a pencil whilst shielding a four year old with her body? Or feels guilty that she took her eye off the little one and she was pushed off the step and broke her leg? That she's been put into an adult role when she's barely made the age of criminal responsibility and will not have been told that she's going to be the physical obstacle the other child will try and go through to get to their target/fixation?

And whilst we're at it, why more girls than boys responsible for caring for who they see as babies?

Brainstorm23 · 15/10/2025 21:56

I haven't read the other thread or all of this one but for anyone criticising OP try to put yourself in her shoes. I actually think she's been remarkably restrained and calm about the whole thing. If this was happening to my daughter i might not be so calm.

OP - be proud that you've stood up for your daughter and that you're protecting her by moving her to a different school.

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 22:01

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/10/2025 21:54

So she gets to be kicked, bitten, stabbed with a pencil whilst shielding a four year old with her body? Or feels guilty that she took her eye off the little one and she was pushed off the step and broke her leg? That she's been put into an adult role when she's barely made the age of criminal responsibility and will not have been told that she's going to be the physical obstacle the other child will try and go through to get to their target/fixation?

And whilst we're at it, why more girls than boys responsible for caring for who they see as babies?

Show quote history

Exactly, no responsibility from the violent child, their parent, school.. let's foist the responsibility onto another child...

Grammarnut · 15/10/2025 22:07

Petitchat · 15/10/2025 17:21

I truly sympathise with everyone whose children have been badly affected or injured by other children. It's just awful.

However, why do posters always blame the mum and not the dad? PP's speak of wanting to have it out with the mum.

And yet, if it isn't sen difficulties, it's possible the aggression is copied from the dad?
No one, but no one, mentions the dad?

Some autistic children are/can be aggressive. Why assume the father is aggressive? It may have nothing to do with examples at home but entirely from the child's condition. Which is why we used to have special schools.

ThisOldThang · 15/10/2025 22:11

NeverDropYourMooncup · 15/10/2025 21:54

So she gets to be kicked, bitten, stabbed with a pencil whilst shielding a four year old with her body? Or feels guilty that she took her eye off the little one and she was pushed off the step and broke her leg? That she's been put into an adult role when she's barely made the age of criminal responsibility and will not have been told that she's going to be the physical obstacle the other child will try and go through to get to their target/fixation?

And whilst we're at it, why more girls than boys responsible for caring for who they see as babies?

Show quote history

There was recently a thread by a TA that had been clubbed on the back of the head with a log by an autistic child. SEN parents were lining up to victim blame her - 'why did you have your back to the child?', 'why were you sat lower than the child?", etc.

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

This suggestion of offloading the safety of the OP's child into another child is ludicrous. How can the school possibly think it's a good idea? What if the bodyguard child flips out after having shit smeared on them and hurts the boy? It's a disaster waiting to happen.

BeeKee · 15/10/2025 22:17

ThisOldThang · 15/10/2025 22:11

There was recently a thread by a TA that had been clubbed on the back of the head with a log by an autistic child. SEN parents were lining up to victim blame her - 'why did you have your back to the child?', 'why were you sat lower than the child?", etc.

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

This suggestion of offloading the safety of the OP's child into another child is ludicrous. How can the school possibly think it's a good idea? What if the bodyguard child flips out after having shit smeared on them and hurts the boy? It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Show quote history

I literally commented on this thread and had my account deleted.

You cannot say a thing about protecting children as it’s seen as a SEN witch hunt.

BeeKee · 15/10/2025 22:21

liamharha · 15/10/2025 21:23

Then the parent gets fined and prosecuted for not sending the child to school.
This happened to me after a long fight finally got my child in a specialist school she's started yr 2 after been on a reduced timetable for 2 years whilst we fought for her to have a education.
The ignorance on this thread regarding SEN is appalling ,it's a massive spectrum some children will be aggressive some won't some will respond to boundaries and discipline some won't .
I have one SEN child in mainstream who is good as gold causes no problems but is extremely vulnerable,I have another who is extremely similar to the little boy OP describes ,these are little human beings and little children NOT monsters or problems to be shut away from polite society.

But why should children have to deal with your sometimes aggressive child?

I wouldn’t want to deal with sometimes aggressive men. In fact, everyone would say I should call the police and leave and seek help.

Children should NEVER have to be around violence.

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 22:25

ThisOldThang · 15/10/2025 22:11

There was recently a thread by a TA that had been clubbed on the back of the head with a log by an autistic child. SEN parents were lining up to victim blame her - 'why did you have your back to the child?', 'why were you sat lower than the child?", etc.

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

This suggestion of offloading the safety of the OP's child into another child is ludicrous. How can the school possibly think it's a good idea? What if the bodyguard child flips out after having shit smeared on them and hurts the boy? It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Show quote history

Remember that thread! Absolutely full of the 'how dare you turn your back on him if he doesn't approve!! You deserved that violence and should be sacked! That poor boy, having to hit you!!'

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 15/10/2025 22:30

ThisOldThang · 15/10/2025 22:11

There was recently a thread by a TA that had been clubbed on the back of the head with a log by an autistic child. SEN parents were lining up to victim blame her - 'why did you have your back to the child?', 'why were you sat lower than the child?", etc.

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

This suggestion of offloading the safety of the OP's child into another child is ludicrous. How can the school possibly think it's a good idea? What if the bodyguard child flips out after having shit smeared on them and hurts the boy? It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Show quote history

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

That could include an awful lot of children already at SEN schools.

A relative works in a SEN school and often tells of how she's been hit, bitten, punched, her hair pulled, her top pulled up/down, been headbutted etc, and she said it's not limited to a handful of children either. It can happen from most of the children if they're overwhelmed.

I think there's not enough pay and not enough training given to the TA/support staff to handle this but I do still think these children deserve an education and make a lot more progress in a school than they would at home, and they deserve the opportunity for development.

To a degree I do think that the staff shouldn't have their backs turned to the pupils but I know that's not always realistic or practical, but they're there to support and safeguard, which again leads me back to saying the staff don't receive enough pay or training for the roles they're given.

This is in a 3:1 child to adult ratio school as standard with many children already having 2:1 or 1:1.

Incidentally, I'm trying to get my own child into a SEN school, and I'm worried that once he's in, he will be bit, hit, punched, slapped, nipped and scratched. I don't have the tools, training or resources to home educate, and it isn't in his best interest so we're fucked if we do and we're fucked if we don't.

shampop · 15/10/2025 22:36

BeeKee · 15/10/2025 22:21

But why should children have to deal with your sometimes aggressive child?

I wouldn’t want to deal with sometimes aggressive men. In fact, everyone would say I should call the police and leave and seek help.

Children should NEVER have to be around violence.

Show quote history

I 100% agree that OPs DD should not be experiencing what is happening, neither should any child. There are massive failings happening here.

However, these threads do tend to get nasty towards disabled children and their carers in general. People use the subject matter to start blaming parents etc.

As a parent to a disabled DC, who knows many other families with disabled DC, I know and recognise that a lot of our children could easily be violent and disruptive at school if they weren’t supervised properly. I also know we are great parents who know how to use boundaries and discipline, we just happened to have disabled children with severe challenges. I just remind myself that some people are uneducated on these matters (or just a bit thick) and not take it personally, but it’s hard.

I also know that, whilst something needs to change and what is happening to OPs DD is absolutely unacceptable and I would also be horrified if it were happening to me, the answer of simply removing SEN children from school and denying them any placement or education (as some people on this thread think is okay) would be a complete and utter disaster.

ThisOldThang · 15/10/2025 22:42

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 15/10/2025 22:30

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

That could include an awful lot of children already at SEN schools.

A relative works in a SEN school and often tells of how she's been hit, bitten, punched, her hair pulled, her top pulled up/down, been headbutted etc, and she said it's not limited to a handful of children either. It can happen from most of the children if they're overwhelmed.

I think there's not enough pay and not enough training given to the TA/support staff to handle this but I do still think these children deserve an education and make a lot more progress in a school than they would at home, and they deserve the opportunity for development.

To a degree I do think that the staff shouldn't have their backs turned to the pupils but I know that's not always realistic or practical, but they're there to support and safeguard, which again leads me back to saying the staff don't receive enough pay or training for the roles they're given.

This is in a 3:1 child to adult ratio school as standard with many children already having 2:1 or 1:1.

Incidentally, I'm trying to get my own child into a SEN school, and I'm worried that once he's in, he will be bit, hit, punched, slapped, nipped and scratched. I don't have the tools, training or resources to home educate, and it isn't in his best interest so we're fucked if we do and we're fucked if we don't.

Show quote history

"To a degree I do think that the staff shouldn't have their backs turned to the pupils"

So how can these children mix with other children? You can't expect the other children to manage their behaviour so that they've never got their back to one of these violent children? That's not the reality of how children play or behave.

saraclara · 15/10/2025 22:45

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 15/10/2025 22:30

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

That could include an awful lot of children already at SEN schools.

A relative works in a SEN school and often tells of how she's been hit, bitten, punched, her hair pulled, her top pulled up/down, been headbutted etc, and she said it's not limited to a handful of children either. It can happen from most of the children if they're overwhelmed.

I think there's not enough pay and not enough training given to the TA/support staff to handle this but I do still think these children deserve an education and make a lot more progress in a school than they would at home, and they deserve the opportunity for development.

To a degree I do think that the staff shouldn't have their backs turned to the pupils but I know that's not always realistic or practical, but they're there to support and safeguard, which again leads me back to saying the staff don't receive enough pay or training for the roles they're given.

This is in a 3:1 child to adult ratio school as standard with many children already having 2:1 or 1:1.

Incidentally, I'm trying to get my own child into a SEN school, and I'm worried that once he's in, he will be bit, hit, punched, slapped, nipped and scratched. I don't have the tools, training or resources to home educate, and it isn't in his best interest so we're fucked if we do and we're fucked if we don't.

Show quote history

If it helps, I taught in special schools for my entire career. Yes, I got hit, bitten, spat at and any number of minor injuries from children who really couldn't help themselves.

But those same children hardly ever went for other children. I can only think of a couple of occasions, one when a biter bit another child, just because the boy (his friend) was nearest, and another who flew at another child because they made a noise that distressed him.

We used to comment on how odd (and fortuitous) it was that the children only took their anguish or anxiety out on adults.

And of course it's absolutely impossible for a teacher or TA not to turn their back on a child. As soon as you lean over to help one child, you have your back to another. My TAs were eagle - eyed, but not necessarily always within reach of a child who can bite in a split second.

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 22:47

@shampop i just remind myself that some people are uneducated on these matters (or just a bit thick) and not take it personally, but it’s hard.
So people who don't accept their children being violently assaulted are just a bit thick?

shampop · 15/10/2025 22:56

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 22:47

@shampop i just remind myself that some people are uneducated on these matters (or just a bit thick) and not take it personally, but it’s hard.
So people who don't accept their children being violently assaulted are just a bit thick?

Where did I say that??? 🤦‍♀️

I literally wrote, multiple times, that what is happening to OPs DD is unacceptable. I wrote that massive failings are happening. I wrote that I would also be horrified in her situation.

I was talking about those who use these threads to start being nasty about SEN children and their parents in general, blaming them etc- that absolutely does show a lack of education on the matter.

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 23:03

So you're preaching then? @shampop saying People not agreeing of 'reasons' to be acceptable for one child regularly assaulting another are as you say a bit thick?

Solipsis92 · 15/10/2025 23:12

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 22:25

Remember that thread! Absolutely full of the 'how dare you turn your back on him if he doesn't approve!! You deserved that violence and should be sacked! That poor boy, having to hit you!!'

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I saw that thread but I didn't see anyone saying any of those things.

Lougle · 15/10/2025 23:13

Yesimmoaningaboutbenefits · 15/10/2025 21:52

This is woefully ignorant.

Special school is often suggested for difficult behaviour because difficult behaviour is often exasperated by unsuitable environments. If a suitable school is provided, the behaviours drastically decrease.

There's also smaller classes, almost always less than 10 (although even that has been increased in recent years. Used to be around 6 per class).
And more adults. A lot more adults. Primary mainstream could be 1 adult for 34 children in KS2. Specialist could be 5 adults for 10 children.

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The irony. I have been involved in special schools since 2010. My point is not that special schools can't meet the needs of challenging behaviour, but that challenging behaviour doesn't always belong in a special school. A cognitively able child with challenging behaviour does not belong in a LD special school. Children with LDs can be just as traumatised by challenging behaviour as children without.

What is needed is close supervision to prevent these incidents and identifying the reason for the behaviour and identifying the provision that will reduce such behaviour. Not just shoving them in the nearest special school.

shampop · 15/10/2025 23:14

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 23:03

So you're preaching then? @shampop saying People not agreeing of 'reasons' to be acceptable for one child regularly assaulting another are as you say a bit thick?

Edited

What on earth are you on about?

I completely agree that children should not be violently assaulted. I would be horrified in OPs shoes. It is not acceptable for children to be violently assaulted. I would not accept my child being assaulted. I do not believe anybody should accept their child being violently assaulted. I have not said otherwise anywhere on this thread 🤦‍♀️

I was simply talking about those who jump on these threads to start being generally offensive or nasty about disabled children and their carers in general, I don’t understand the issues with that.

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 23:15

Solipsis92 · 15/10/2025 23:12

I saw that thread but I didn't see anyone saying any of those things.

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There was quite a lot!

Solipsis92 · 15/10/2025 23:17

I'm so sorry OP thats appalling 💐 The school has a duty to keep your dd safe and they're completely failing in that by the sound of it. In your position I would move her to a different school if thats possible. Even if the boy eventually stops attacking your daughter or is moved to another school I wouldn't trust the school to handle any other issues properly in the future

Solipsis92 · 15/10/2025 23:19

NellieElephantine · 15/10/2025 23:15

There was quite a lot!

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Really? Saying "how dare you turn your back on him if he doesn't approve!! You deserved that violence and should be sacked! That poor boy, having to hit you!!" Well I supppse its possible I missed those comments... Or you may be exaggerating for effect...

shampop · 15/10/2025 23:19

Solipsis92 · 15/10/2025 23:17

I'm so sorry OP thats appalling 💐 The school has a duty to keep your dd safe and they're completely failing in that by the sound of it. In your position I would move her to a different school if thats possible. Even if the boy eventually stops attacking your daughter or is moved to another school I wouldn't trust the school to handle any other issues properly in the future

Yes this was my thought as well. Even if the boy is moved on to a more suitable setting, the school have proved how useless they are handling issues and I wouldn’t have much faith in them should any problems arise in the future.

WearyAuldWumman · 15/10/2025 23:20

Yesimmoaningaboutbenefits · 15/10/2025 21:52

This is woefully ignorant.

Special school is often suggested for difficult behaviour because difficult behaviour is often exasperated by unsuitable environments. If a suitable school is provided, the behaviours drastically decrease.

There's also smaller classes, almost always less than 10 (although even that has been increased in recent years. Used to be around 6 per class).
And more adults. A lot more adults. Primary mainstream could be 1 adult for 34 children in KS2. Specialist could be 5 adults for 10 children.

Show quote history

Yes, 10 years ago there was a special school within a campus shared by my school. There was one teacher to each class of 6 and there were assistants to help with toileting and feeding where necessary. (The special school encompassed both primary and secondary.)

Solipsis92 · 15/10/2025 23:20

shampop · 15/10/2025 23:19

Yes this was my thought as well. Even if the boy is moved on to a more suitable setting, the school have proved how useless they are handling issues and I wouldn’t have much faith in them should any problems arise in the future.

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Yes if they think its appropriate to let a 4 year old child be attacked without doing anything their judgement is appalling!