Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

I haven’t read the whole thread yet, but keep in mind there’s no guarantee she won’t face similar challenges at the next school. We had parents move their child out of the frying pan (our school) and into the fire where there was a child even worse at the next school.

It really helps if you can get other parents on side. You have to be careful it doesn’t turn into a witch hunt though, because it isn’t about this child. It’s about the failure of the school to meet his needs and keep other children safe.

The child at our school wasn’t excluded. But when parents of traumatised children advised the HT we would all keep our children off school in a coordinated protest if even one more child was injured, they miraculously solved the problem.

What a crock of shit.

I promise you, if your child was on the end of this treatment, you would promptly not give a single fuck about the boys “reasons”.

yes You're correct, I'm diagnosed ADHD and OCD, DD is on the necessary 'pathway'

Can you answer the question?

I did

Utter bollocks. I’ve been teaching for 20 years and have loads of friends who are teachers and while there have been cases of kids shitting where they shouldn’t or frequently soiling themselves I have NEVER heard of a child deliberately smearing his own shit on another pupil.
please tell us the area where you live where this is common so we can all avoid it.

What's more challenging than multiple accounts of physical violence, including head injury, verbal abuse and faecal smearing?

Talking about undesirable and challenging behaviour as a whole.

Absolutely, perhaps at her school the kids are murdering members of staff?

Ah so 'talking' about the behaviour is worse?

Oh go read the rest of my posts and what my post was in response to before having a pop eh? Then you may not get the wrong end of the stick. 'YAY'!

And according to education board, that'll still be staffs fault!
'Now what can you do next time someone kills you? And do you know how much you've upset this pupil?! You're suspended anyway even though you're dead'.

Any child smearing shit on others shouldn't be in that school.

Sorry to hear this.

I was lucky enough (back in the day) to experience fully comprehensive schooling. Our secondary welcomed children with a wide range of SEND. Some kids were severely disabled. The staff set an example of how us pupils should interact with each other. We were taught to be kind but firm to assert boundaries and to step in when we saw anyone doing anything that could be harmful to another kid. There were also numerous times when kids were first to step in, u til staff arrived, to support children with SEND who were having a health episode. Of course, it wasn’t perfect. But our school was proud to be fully inclusive and I’m grateful for having that type of schooling.

IMHO all primary classes, especially reception and Year 1, should have at least one TA, and ideally volunteers too. After 15 years of biting and ongoing ‘austerity’ cuts; a digital revolution that’s hugely changed society, including family life and children’s play etc, and a pandemic through which kids and families were holed up with no or little support (on and off) for two years, it’s no wonder the need is so wide and severe.

OP, I feel very sad that you’re having to move your DD but totally understand why you want to minimise any stress in both your lives. IMHO, the school and wider services have let both children down.

Again, I'm not sure what unmet needs make a child smear shit on someone purposely.

Sorry @HollandAndCooper not fair to be so blasé on your thread 😳

My autistic DS 'attacked' other children as he couldn't cope at school. He'd been fine in pre school and this started in the first week of reception. School didn't tell me, I found out from other parents. He struggled with certain children as just couldn't navigate friendships and couldn't manage the school environment. School wouldn't provide 1:1 and I regret not taking him out there and then as he developed lasting trauma from it all. And it was traumatic for me too - it's horrendous when your lovely child is seen as the bad kid.

In hindsight I wish he had been expelled instead of keeping him there while fighting tooth and nail for support that never materialised.

It is you. With all due respect to the OP, she doesn't have the standing to make a diagnosis. She also said later in the thread that there was no mention of him having special needs in the meeting, but I see you chose to ignore that.

Please provide an example of anyone saying "just expel the awful autistic child", because I can't recall one. There were a few people correcting the posters who said that you can't permanently exclude a child with special needs to the effect that you can if you can show that he is a danger to others and the school cannot manage his behaviour. However, I am sure it hardly needs saying that correcting a misconception about the guidelines is not in any way, shape or form calling for his expulsion.

I'm afraid you are hoist by your own petard here. Want to be all cool and groovy? Don't assume that all poor behaviour is evidence of a disability.

In what world is smearing shit on another child below the bar? It's absolutely not a normal run of the mill bad behaviour, it's way beyond that.

Do you honestly believe that a 5 year old with additional needs has any understanding of what a graveyard is?
Also, referring to the same child as ‘feral’ IS ableist and pretty discriminatory.

I totally understand why you wish to remove your child if she has been hurt by any child - she is your priority. Sadly, there are many more children like this boy in mainstream schools these days because the SEN system is broken. Special school places are as rare as hens teeth. There is absolutely no guarantee that your DD will never come across another child like him in her class. I should imagine that the staff at her school likely feel awful about what has happened and it sounds like they’re trying to put some things in place (I too didn’t see your deleted post so am not sure what they suggested). I would ask them to guarantee that this boy has a 1:1 adult with him whilst he is in school. If they cannot do that then certainly change schools. Their talk of buddies sounds a bit wish washy - other children should NEVER be used to keep children safe from other children!

You're doing the right thing keeping your daughter home and safe and potentially moving her. In my opinion this is straightforward bullying to an extent which is very unusual for that age. I work with some children with SEN who can hurt others, but never this targeted and deliberate. This needs to be taken more seriously and he clearly needs a 1-1.

The school cannot disclose a child’s SEN or disability.

If a child is old enough to tease someone and tell them they're a baby who needs nappies and then goes to the toilet and plans to put his own shit on his finger with the sole purpose of going back to the same girl and smearing it on her then I'm fairly sure he could understand the words "don't run on the graves"

The school will not be allowed to disclose anything about a child's disability to another child's parent so he can still be autistic even though the school haven't mentioned it.