Autistic child attacking DD part 2

[HollandAndCooper]

Original thread here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share

Hi Everyone,

me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning.

DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly.

well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2.

the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account.
it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet.
he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan.

a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it.

i have a meeting this morning.

I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue.
please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe.

so far the child has:
kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this.

she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore.

i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed.
My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now.
thanks in advance.

Where is the proof the school has taken all reasonable steps?

There are children like this in many, many mainstream schools with adequate supervision and education provision successfully learning and progressing .

Let's have a little reality check, shall we? What we have here are two four year old children - one who is persistently bullying the other, by all accounts unprovoked, and one who is being systematically bullied and humiliated. You have no evidence whatsoever that this boy has a disability and, self-righteous though you may feel, your assumption that he has, and that this is informing his behaviour, is in itself ablist. You actually do not know why he is behaving this way, you only know that he is.

The truth is, ND children in crisis can lash out, but they are highly unlikely to be selective about their targets. It can be other children, older and bigger children, adults or, more often, objects. As any parent of a ND child will tell you, they are far, far more likely to be the victims of bullying than the perpetrators.

Then we have the school, and its legal duty. Every child has the right to be safe in school. Every parent has the right to assume when they drop their child off at school, they won't be picking them up later bruised, distressed and smeared in another kid's shit. In these terms, there is no demand that anything happens to a perpetrator. There is a demand that the victim is kept safe, by whatever means necessary. However sympathetic we may be to the boy and his parents - and I am - the victim's safety is paramount. I think it's absolutely disgraceful that the school's response is so ineffectual that it is the victim who has to move schools. It is utterly unjust, and let me be clear - I do not blame the OP, desperately trying to keep her child safe, for any action she takes to effect that.

Now, it may feel very cool and groovy to tick everyone off, but I see very few posts that don't express concern for the little girl, rather than demanding punishment for the equally very young boy, whilst what you have actually done is stick a label on a child you do not know, with no evidence whatsoever, because all disabled people behave badly, right?

And it's backed up by people like those on this and previous thread who wail ' how dreadful and unkind you are!!! This poor boy!! So what about your child!!. The poor boy!!!'

Nope simply saying you can’t boot out every challenging child with SEN or a difficult home life .

I am so sorry sbout DD’s experiences. It is horrible. The boy sounds deeply disturbed - wiping faeces - WTF? There must be welfare concerns about the boy.

I can’t believe some posters are still excusing the boy’s behaviour. Probably trolls 😳
I’m honestly surprised no one has said something along the lines of, “Well, maybe his needs do involve smearing poo on little girls.”

Trolls or parents of children who do this?

I’m shocked they gave you the cardigan! I wouldn’t be putting it in the machine.
a new cardigan Thankyou.
hope it goes well today x

Troll hunting isn’t allowed on this forum.

And no actually a parent of a child who has been bullied but has empathy for all children including those with SEN and difficult home environments.

Sadly, yes.

Children can mature and improve you know.

The kid should be suspended until his behaviour is dealt with .

The threshold for excluding children is much higher than this, especially at this age. What could be insisted on though is a change of class of the offending child.
Posters suggesting that the offending child gets a 1:1 immediately etc, have no idea about the tidal wave of SEN needs combined with the funding desert that is the UK education sector at the moment. What's much more useful is the advice to just talk about your child.
If you want to kick off about something, I'd kick off about the cardigan. They should have washed that for you.
But stay calm, factual, polite and pushy in meetings with the school. In the primary I work in the SENCO ignores emotional parents and just concentrates on cold hard facts. I think it's a coping mechanism to prioritise need.

Thank you, you have put it better than I ever could have.

and thank you to each and every one of you who've sent DD well wishes, offered support, and also thank you to all the parents of SEN children on this thread, who aren't judging me for my concerns.

as a very tired, very stressed single mum, also battling cancer complications - I genuinely thank you all. (No pitty party here - I'm all good! Just trying to explain why my critical thinking may have been a little out, I am very (very) tired🤣)

because of your wise words and advice I came to the decision to move her. I only have a small family, a fabulous but small circle of friends and try my best to live a quiet and peaceful life. DD has seen a lot due to my cancer, her happiness and mental health is paramount to me, so all your advice hadn't gone unnoticed, I really appreciate it ❤️

Hello

It’s not me who has labelled this child as disabled. The OP has repeatedly stated that this little boy has autism. Autism is a disability.

I agree all children deserve to be kept safe at school. However, this attitude of ‘just expel the awful autistic child’ is ableist. Both children need support and safeguarding.

Can you quote a post that's advocates for excluding all challenging children or is that a strawman?

I am tired of witnessing pupils and other adults being attacked by children.People bend over backwards to excuse vile behaviour and vile language.
We have gone backwards as a society.
O.P, I hope you and your daughter are ok.

Well if you’re using this child as an example you’re setting the bar for exclusion very low. Behaviour that is far more challenging is dealt with on a daily basis in schools. with many many children coming out the other side of it.

Exactly this!

Yes. And section F can name a mainstream even if a child was previously in specialist, if that is what's best.

"Inclusion" for my DD meant a wasted 4 years of KS2 where she hadn't got a clue what was going on, despite a 1:1 because she still needed to learn at an EYFS/KS1 level. Her behaviour was perfect though so 🤷‍♀️.

As a teacher of nearly 20 years, until the last 5ish years I could happily meet the needs of the (max 5 per class of 30) with additional needs, with a decent TA to support.

The number of children with SEN has increased. (Over 50% in my last 3 classes) The severity of need has increased. And there is no longer proper external support from outside agencies, and internal support from TAs is decreasing. I didn't have a TA the last 2 years.

If the children with more severe needs were in a suitable specialist setting, a) they wouldn't be so volatile because they were in a suitable setting and b) I'd be able to meet the needs of the other 40% with SEN because I wouldn't be spending 99% of my time trying to deescalate running/lashing out/hiding/screaming etc.

I left teaching last summer because it is impossible to do a good job with zero support and forcing children into completely unsuitable mainstream just because "inclusion" saving the council money by refusing a vulnerable child a suitable education

Sorry to say that a lot don’t come out the other side. They get older, behaviour mostly gets worse, then they end up in isolation or suspended at secondary.
Let us not pretend that the system isn’t beyond broken.
I feel sorry for children that are slightly behind the expectations, because they haven’t got a hope of any support like they might have done ten years ago. Any support goes on behaviour.
I know that’s unpopular, but it’s how a lot of schools are.

The boy’s behaviour is vile and not necessarily down to a disability. Quite likely down to poor parenting and other issues at home. Most disabled children do not attack and bully other children in such an aggressive and revolting manner.
The OP is wise to move her child because the school can’t or won’t keep her DD safe. He may well find a new target.

To be fair the OP has described herself as ND and the boy as having ASD. She said her daughter was on the pathway for ASD assessment if I recall correctly.
It’s unfortunate that her child has to move school- it shouldn’t be like that. The school should and could have proper measures in place to prevent these incidents occurring.
Schools that are specifically for children with disabilities are sadly few and far between.
I wish the OP and her daughter well.
Its a shame the school could not have tried harder in this situation.

At what cost though? It's no wonder we have so many kids with anxiety issues and school refusal if they have to cope with behaviour like this. There was a PP who still remembered the impact on her 35 years later.

We really need more TA's and more SEN schools, but instead we have academy CEO's earning hundreds of thousands of pounds. The government might have named and shamed 37 of them last year but has anything changed - I doubt it. Schools apparently have no money but some of the CEOs are raking in 400 -500 thousand a year. It's a mess.

Urgh. I’d be moving my child, I agree with you OP.

You absolutely should not have to.

But I still would because I’d just want to make it stop.

I’d be singing like a fucking canary about it though. I’d be telling everyone exactly why I was moving her.