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What are Hamas playing at?

651 replies

elprup · 15/10/2025 08:13

It’s deeply worrying that Hamas haven’t returned all the dead hostages as agreed. I’ve seen comments saying it’s an impossible task given how Gaza has been reduced to rubble. But if that’s the case, they would have known they had lost the bodies. So why did they agree to return them if they knew they weren’t able to do so?

OP posts:
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Alantraitor · 16/10/2025 21:02

SinnerBoy · 16/10/2025 20:55

The word is Judenrein.

Judenfrei (German: [ˈjuːdn̩ˌfʁaɪ], "free of Jews") and judenrein (German: [ˈjuːdn̩ˌʁaɪn], "clean of Jews") are terms of Nazi origin to designate an area that has been "cleansed" of Jews during the Holocaust.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenfrei

CrossChecking · 16/10/2025 21:03

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:39

First yes, in theory a Palestinian can live in Israel if they get married to an Israeli. Secondly, normal everyday Israelis don’t look for land in the West Bank. Please please please stick to actual facts.

In theory? Explain how that theory works.

Can a Palestinian unilaterally decide to move to Israel? If they can't why do you think it's OK that Jewish Israelis have been doing that in Palestine? Why do you think it's OK to bulldoze schools and homes, prevent people having access to water, to streets, to roads etc for the 'protection' of these Jewish Israelis who unilaterally decide to move to illegal settlements in Palestine? Would you be OK with Palestinians doing the same in Israel?

You don't think any of the 700000 people who choose to live in occupied Palestine are 'normal everyday Israelis' what are they then?

SinnerBoy · 16/10/2025 21:07

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Alantraitor · 16/10/2025 21:08

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my point was the two terms sound interchangable.

Alantraitor · 16/10/2025 21:12

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@Jujujudo has made it clear that they don't support the settlers as with this comment they made I absolutely hate the settlers for how they behave. They certainly don’t represent most Israelis I can assure you.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 21:16

Alantraitor · 16/10/2025 21:12

@Jujujudo has made it clear that they don't support the settlers as with this comment they made I absolutely hate the settlers for how they behave. They certainly don’t represent most Israelis I can assure you.

No. She has condemn their behaviour, but not their presence as settlers.

SinnerBoy · 16/10/2025 22:11

Sorry, my point was that Judenrein is a little bit more emotional. Like what was said when Gaza was evacuated.

"We GAVE them Gaza, why are they ungrateful?"

camomilelawns · 17/10/2025 02:43

SinnerBoy · 16/10/2025 22:11

Sorry, my point was that Judenrein is a little bit more emotional. Like what was said when Gaza was evacuated.

"We GAVE them Gaza, why are they ungrateful?"

There was a bit more to it than that.

When the Israelis pulled out of Gaza they left a behind flourishing market gardening industry (that had many foreign investors)
The Palestinians looted all the infrastructure, smashed up the green houses and dug up the irrigation systems.
They then used the irrigation pipes as rocket launchers to attack Israel.

It seems Palestinians have a habit of "biting the hand that feeds them".

www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna9331863

camomilelawns · 17/10/2025 03:01

CrossChecking · 16/10/2025 16:11

Palestine - the illegally occupied territories.

The landmark ruling of 19 July 2024 declared that Israel’s occupation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is unlawful, along with the associated settlement regime, annexation and use of natural resources. The Court added that Israel's legislation and measures violate the international prohibition on racial segregation and apartheid. The ICJ mandated Israel to end its occupation, dismantle its settlements, provide full reparations to Palestinian victims and facilitate the return of displaced people.

"The landmark ruling of 19 July 2024 declared that Israel’s occupation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is unlawful,"

NB. The ICJ’s decision is an advisory opinion and has no direct legal consequences on Israel or other UN member states.

The ICJ asserted that Israel has annexed large parts of the West Bank, along with its formal annexation of East Jerusalem.
Interestingly, there were no complaints when Jordan annexed the West Bank in 1950......

camomilelawns · 17/10/2025 03:26

To follow on from my previous post re Palestinians in the West Bank - while all eyes are on Gaza, Jordan is pulling the rug out from under the feet of Palestinians there.

More than half of the 6.3 million population of Jordan is of Palestinian origin-that is, from areas west of the River Jordan, including the West Bank, today's Israel, and Gaza.
With the exception of persons from Gaza, the vast majority of those persons of Palestinian origin have Jordanian citizenship.
However, since 1988, and especially over the past few years, the Jordanian government has been arbitrarily and without notice withdrawing Jordanian nationality from its citizens of Palestinian origin, making them stateless
For many of them this means they are again stateless Palestinians as they were before 1950.

So far, Jordan has withdrawn its nationality from thousands of its citizens of Palestinian origin-over 2,700 between 2004 and 2008 alone. It has done so, in the individual cases Human Rights Watch identified, in an arbitrary manner and in violation of Jordan's nationality law of 1954. Under that law Palestinian residents of the West Bank in 1949 or thereafter received full Jordanian nationality following Jordan's incorporation of the West Bank in April 1950.

Where is the outcry from the UK pro-palestinian supporters, I wonder ?

The reason may be Jordan's desire to be able to rid itself of hundreds of thousands of Jordanian citizens of Palestinian origin whom Jordan could then forcibly return to the West Bank or Israel as part of a settlement of the Palestinian refugee problem caused by the 1948 and 1967 Arab-Israeli wars.

Anyone who has visited Jordan will have seen the "tent city" stretching down the East Bank of the River Jordan as far as the eye can see.

This info can be checked at Human Rights Watch.

Linzloopy · 17/10/2025 03:55

Rickrolypoly · 15/10/2025 08:48

They always said that they may not be able to locate all the bodies and that was acknowledged in the ceasefire deal. There was no alternative to not going along with trump's tremendous peace plan considering the alternative was that he would reign down hell on Gaza if they didn't.
Bibi is only delighted anyway as it's gives him as reason to continue starving innocent children and shooting dead civilians. I hope there's a special place in hell for him and all his supporters and enablers.

War is a terrible thing. Innocent civilians suffer. Ever looked at what happens in other wars in other parts of the world, or are you for some reason only interested in this one?

Linzloopy · 17/10/2025 03:57

camomilelawns · 17/10/2025 03:26

To follow on from my previous post re Palestinians in the West Bank - while all eyes are on Gaza, Jordan is pulling the rug out from under the feet of Palestinians there.

More than half of the 6.3 million population of Jordan is of Palestinian origin-that is, from areas west of the River Jordan, including the West Bank, today's Israel, and Gaza.
With the exception of persons from Gaza, the vast majority of those persons of Palestinian origin have Jordanian citizenship.
However, since 1988, and especially over the past few years, the Jordanian government has been arbitrarily and without notice withdrawing Jordanian nationality from its citizens of Palestinian origin, making them stateless
For many of them this means they are again stateless Palestinians as they were before 1950.

So far, Jordan has withdrawn its nationality from thousands of its citizens of Palestinian origin-over 2,700 between 2004 and 2008 alone. It has done so, in the individual cases Human Rights Watch identified, in an arbitrary manner and in violation of Jordan's nationality law of 1954. Under that law Palestinian residents of the West Bank in 1949 or thereafter received full Jordanian nationality following Jordan's incorporation of the West Bank in April 1950.

Where is the outcry from the UK pro-palestinian supporters, I wonder ?

The reason may be Jordan's desire to be able to rid itself of hundreds of thousands of Jordanian citizens of Palestinian origin whom Jordan could then forcibly return to the West Bank or Israel as part of a settlement of the Palestinian refugee problem caused by the 1948 and 1967 Arab-Israeli wars.

Anyone who has visited Jordan will have seen the "tent city" stretching down the East Bank of the River Jordan as far as the eye can see.

This info can be checked at Human Rights Watch.

Very interesting.

camomilelawns · 17/10/2025 04:30

Linzloopy · 17/10/2025 03:57

Very interesting.

Yes, it could explain why Israel are toying with the idea of (officially ?) annexing the West Bank in order to guard against a humungous influx of refugees from Jordan....

SinnerBoy · 17/10/2025 06:34

camomilelawns · Today 02:43

The Israeli flower farmers took 90% of the Gazan water supply and were supported by a large number of soldiers. Palestinians having the temerity to sink wells had them destroyed and in some cases, their homes blown up.

7,000 flower farmers abstracting 90% of the water, whilst 1.8 million Palestinians had water for 2 hours a day, if they were lucky.

Alantraitor · 17/10/2025 07:41

Timeforabitofpeace · 17/10/2025 06:42

Plus they’ve withdrawn food aid but aid isn’t coming in https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgjd783ywn3o?app-referrer=deep-link

The GHF got nothing but criticism when it was running and now it’s criticised for closing down too.

DrPrunesqualer · 17/10/2025 09:16

Alantraitor · 17/10/2025 07:41

The GHF got nothing but criticism when it was running and now it’s criticised for closing down too.

The GHF are under investigation in the US

DrPrunesqualer · 17/10/2025 09:22

camomilelawns · 17/10/2025 04:30

Yes, it could explain why Israel are toying with the idea of (officially ?) annexing the West Bank in order to guard against a humungous influx of refugees from Jordan....

Your wording is interesting there

It’s not ( officially ?) annex
Putting the ? in doesn't change anything
Israel toying with ideas such as this prevents any chance of peace for the Palestinians
You cannot extend your countries boundaries and steal land

Alantraitor · 17/10/2025 09:54

DrPrunesqualer · 17/10/2025 09:16

The GHF are under investigation in the US

It's a good thing it has disbanded than though it will get criticised for that too.

Jujujudo · 17/10/2025 14:11

CrossChecking · 16/10/2025 21:03

In theory? Explain how that theory works.

Can a Palestinian unilaterally decide to move to Israel? If they can't why do you think it's OK that Jewish Israelis have been doing that in Palestine? Why do you think it's OK to bulldoze schools and homes, prevent people having access to water, to streets, to roads etc for the 'protection' of these Jewish Israelis who unilaterally decide to move to illegal settlements in Palestine? Would you be OK with Palestinians doing the same in Israel?

You don't think any of the 700000 people who choose to live in occupied Palestine are 'normal everyday Israelis' what are they then?

I’m genuinely upset by your comments. Calling Israel occupied Palestine is horrible. There’s no point in me continuing to discuss this with you if you think Israel is Palestine. I will not support a Jew free country anywhere.

Jujujudo · 17/10/2025 14:14

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 21:16

No. She has condemn their behaviour, but not their presence as settlers.

I condemn their actions 100%. My argument is that if Palestinians were willing to accept Jews living on their current territory, then they wouldn’t need to be settlers, they could be citizens. Palestine in its current form is judenrein (thank you for the edit) and this is an unacceptable mindset.

Rickrolypoly · 17/10/2025 14:19

Linzloopy · 17/10/2025 03:55

War is a terrible thing. Innocent civilians suffer. Ever looked at what happens in other wars in other parts of the world, or are you for some reason only interested in this one?

What a stupid thing to say. Of course there are awful situations all over the world but that was not the point of this thread. My comment was in relation to this topic. And so what if there are bad things happening in other countries, it doesn't mean we have to shrug and look the other way, or not have an opinion on this situation.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 17/10/2025 14:34

Jujujudo · 17/10/2025 14:14

I condemn their actions 100%. My argument is that if Palestinians were willing to accept Jews living on their current territory, then they wouldn’t need to be settlers, they could be citizens. Palestine in its current form is judenrein (thank you for the edit) and this is an unacceptable mindset.

Ah, so you're in favour of a one state solution where Israelis and Palestinians can live without restrictions across the whole combined territory? Where is fine for Israeli's to go and move in the West Bank, and equally fine for Palestinians from the West Bank to go and live in Tel Aviv?

Cheeks4970 · 17/10/2025 17:20

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:25

Yes I got that, but thank you for clarifying. I meant that I don’t understand the concept of being content with being separated from the West Bank. They can’t be anything else because there is another country in between them no? And they’re also two separate clans so to speak. And not to mention it would be utter suicide for Israel if that conceit of joining them somehow came to fruition. I know you don’t like the Jews very much but they are human beings.

Are you on social media? A video just came up on my Insta feed from @ alonlee (he’s a Co-Director at Standing Together) of young Israeli women, probably in their 20s, dancing at their gym singing “May your village burn, May your village burn in Gaza”.

Jujujudo · 17/10/2025 17:46

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 17/10/2025 14:34

Ah, so you're in favour of a one state solution where Israelis and Palestinians can live without restrictions across the whole combined territory? Where is fine for Israeli's to go and move in the West Bank, and equally fine for Palestinians from the West Bank to go and live in Tel Aviv?

Yes, that would be the ideal solution I think. I mean it works for the Israelis - I think if the Palestinians would be willing to live in a place called Israel where they have full rights as citizens and freedom of religion (as the 2m Israeli Arabs and 7m Jews do) then yes, why not? But that’s not what they want right? They want a Palestinian state. Which is fine, if they are willing to live with Jews no? I’m not against anyone living anywhere, as long as they have full freedom and rights.

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