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AIBU?

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What are Hamas playing at?

651 replies

elprup · 15/10/2025 08:13

It’s deeply worrying that Hamas haven’t returned all the dead hostages as agreed. I’ve seen comments saying it’s an impossible task given how Gaza has been reduced to rubble. But if that’s the case, they would have known they had lost the bodies. So why did they agree to return them if they knew they weren’t able to do so?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:14

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 17:48

I support a Palestinian state with control over immigration, like any other country.

You can't just unilaterally rock up in someone else's land and take it over. That's invasion. Religion is irrelevant to this. The seekers have no more right to settle in the West Bank without permission then they do the West End of London.

Well that’s not what happened. And the Palestinians have made it very clear that any State they create will be Judenfrei. So you either support that or you don’t.

lljkk · 16/10/2025 19:17

About the missing bodies... I imagine the persons who buried them only know roughly where the body was put, but also other things were stashed nearyby, like guns or money. Don't want Israelis getting hold of those useful items.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:19

PevenseygirlQQ · 16/10/2025 17:50

Sorry where did they say that? I think it’s clear as day she means the West Bank and was referring to the settlers. You’ve pulled that one out of thin air

We may be misunderstanding one another. It is very clear that a Palestinian state/area will have no Jews living there. Much like the other 56 ethnoreligious Muslim countries in the world. No jews. That’s the main problem here. Two peoples, one has no problem with a diverse society (Israel, see the stats), and one wants zero Jews anywhere near them (see the stats and their government’s charter). It’s a bit like Cyprus. Southern Cyprus is diverse, northern (occupied) Cyprus, is not.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:21

camomilelawns · 16/10/2025 17:53

Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip for nearly two decades following Britain’s withdrawal from Palestine in May 1948 and that lasted until 1967.
Egypt never purported to annex the Gaza Strip, instead treating the area as under military occupation. Egypt also enforced a strict curfew for several years.
Israel briefly occupied the Gaza Strip for several months during the 1956–1957 Sinai/Suez war but returned the area to Egypt. .
However, at no time during the nearly two decades of Egyptian occupation did the Palestinians ever demand self-determination in the Gaza Strip.
Moreover, the UN never condemned the Egyptian occupation or otherwise insisted on Palestinian statehood in the Gaza Strip.

Israel took Egypt from Gaza in the 6 day War in 1967. I do know that Israel hasn't occupied Gaza since 1994 when they pulled out - and they also pulled out of Jericho at the same time. (That was the time when Elections were held in Gaza and Hamas took control.)

King Abdullah of Jordan seized control of the West Bank area in 1948 and formally incorporated it into his kingdom in 1950.
He relinquished control of the area in 1988.

So what is it you think I need to know about the "occupation" ?

They only use it and obsess about it when it’s the Jews. I think that’s crystal clear at this point.

PevenseygirlQQ · 16/10/2025 19:25

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:19

We may be misunderstanding one another. It is very clear that a Palestinian state/area will have no Jews living there. Much like the other 56 ethnoreligious Muslim countries in the world. No jews. That’s the main problem here. Two peoples, one has no problem with a diverse society (Israel, see the stats), and one wants zero Jews anywhere near them (see the stats and their government’s charter). It’s a bit like Cyprus. Southern Cyprus is diverse, northern (occupied) Cyprus, is not.

I think the poster was more referring to some of the settlers that forcibly remove Palestinians from their homes and land

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:25

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 18:23

I'm saying that Bibi wanted to keep the Palestinians in Gaza bolstered with cash from Qatar so that they were content being separated from the West Bank.

Yes I got that, but thank you for clarifying. I meant that I don’t understand the concept of being content with being separated from the West Bank. They can’t be anything else because there is another country in between them no? And they’re also two separate clans so to speak. And not to mention it would be utter suicide for Israel if that conceit of joining them somehow came to fruition. I know you don’t like the Jews very much but they are human beings.

Bumblebee72 · 16/10/2025 19:26

HelenaWaiting · 15/10/2025 23:39

You flat out said that the Israeli government is evil and "committing war crimes every day". Then you had the temerity to call for a trial. I don't want it to sound like I'm a massive Netanyahu fan (I'm not) but if I'd been accused of something and the rhetoric from the press, certain politicians and protesters alike, was that I was guilty, I wouldn't turn up to be tried either. There is such a thing as due process, you know. There is such a thing as sub judice. Without these things, we are lost.

How much more of a Netanyahu fan girl could you be? Again it is not me calling for a trial? The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant. This is due process.

Netanyahu | International Criminal Court

They believe there is another evidence to tri Netanyahu for war crimes. Due process would be for him to face to court and defend himself.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:26

*concept

Bumblebee72 · 16/10/2025 19:30

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:29

I absolutely hate the settlers for how they behave. They certainly don’t represent most Israelis I can assure you. The Palestinians and Israelis on disputed territories need to work out a way to live together because they both are there now and like in most other democracies, people of all faiths should live together no? It works in Israel, but not in Gaza or the territories. When you talk about the territories you’re talking about an area that isn’t considered Israel proper, and the settlers don’t represent Israelis. Both people are appalling, and I have no idea what the solution is. Until Palestinians accept that Jews are living with them like we all do within Israel, then this is only going to get worse. I’m using up a lot of energy talking to you and I only hope that your bias can be addressed and you can try to be balanced in your views.

You're calling people biased?

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:31

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 18:44

May 2025 bbc news

“ Israeli ministers say 22 new Jewish settlements have been approved in the occupied West Bank - the biggest expansion in decades.
Several already exist as outposts, built without government authorisation, but will now be made legal under Israeli law. !!!!!

Others are completely new, according to Defence Minister Israel Katz and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich.
Settlements - which are widely seen as illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this - are one of the most contentious issues between Israel and the Palestinians.
Katz said the move "prevents the establishment of a Palestinian state that would endanger Israel", while the Palestinian presidency called it a "dangerous escalation".

The Israeli anti-settlement watchdog Peace Now called it "the most extensive move of its kind" in more than 30 years and warned that it would "dramatically reshape the West Bank and entrench the occupation even further".
BBC team's tense encounter with sanctioned Israeli settler while filming in West Bank11 May 2025
Israeli settlers are seizing Palestinian land under cover of war - they hope permanently27 August 2024
Israel has built about 160 settlements housing some 700,000 Jews since it occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem - land Palestinians want, along with Gaza, for their hoped-for future state - in the 1967 Middle East war.

An estimated 3.3 million Palestinians live alongside them.
Successive Israeli governments have allowed settlements to grow. However, expansion has risen sharply since Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu returned to power in late 2022 at the head of a right-wing, pro-settler coalition.

On Thursday, Israel Katz and Bezalel Smotrich - an ultranationalist leader and settler who has control over planning in the West Bank - officially confirmed a decision that is believed to have been taken by the government two weeks ago.
A statement said they had approved 22 new settlements, the "renewal of settlement in northern Samaria [northern West Bank], and reinforcement of the eastern axis of the State of Israel".
It did not include information about the exact location of the new settlements, but maps being circulated suggest they will be across the length and width of the West Bank.

Two years ago, a group of settlers established a Jewish religious school and an unauthorised outpost at Homesh, which Peace Now said would be among 12 made legal under Israeli law.
Nine of the settlements would be completely new, according to the watchdog. They include Mount Ebal, just to the south of Homesh and near the city of Nablus, and Beit Horon North, west of Ramallah, where it said construction had already begun in recent days.
The last of the settlements, Nofei Prat, was currently officially considered a "neighbourhood" of another settlement near East Jerusalem, Kfar Adumim, and would now be recognised as independent, Peace Now added.

Katz said the decision was a "strategic move that prevents the establishment of a Palestinian state that would endanger Israel, and serves as a buffer against our enemies."
"This is a Zionist, security, and national response - and a clear decision on the future of the country," he added.

Smotrich called it a "once-in-a-generation decision" and declared: "Next step sovereignty!"

But a spokesperson for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas - who governs parts of the West Bank not under full Israeli control - called it a "dangerous escalation" and accused Israel of continuing to drag the region into a "cycle of violence and instability".

"This extremist Israeli government is trying by all means to prevent the establishment of an independent Palestinian state," Nabil Abu Rudeineh told Reuters news agency.

Lior Amihai, director of Peace Now, said: "The Israeli government no longer pretends otherwise: the annexation of the occupied territories and expansion of settlements is its central goal."
Elisha Ben Kimon, an Israeli journalist with the popular Ynet news site who covers the West Bank and settlements, told the BBC's Newshour programme that 70% to 80% of ministers wanted to declare the formal annexation of the West Bank.

"I think that Israel is a few steps from declaring this area as Israeli territory. They believe that this period will never be coming back, this is one opportunity that they don't want to slip from their hands - that's why they're doing this now,"

Mr Ben Kimon told the BBC's Newshour programme.
Israel effectively annexed East Jerusalem in 1980, in a move not recognised by the vast majority of the international community.“

So it’s clear what the intention is here for the West Bank and whether the majority of Israelis agree or don’t agree is irrelevant. Enough do to make their presence effective.
I don’t see any demos against it in Israel

Edited

Sensationalist reporting of something that won’t ever happen. And the BBC are not even close to a non biased news source. I’m going to go speak to my cousin who is a counsellor for Meretz (very very anti settler and left!) in Jerusalem and see what this is about. Be careful though, you’re starting to look a little hateful and I’m finding it borderline offensive ok?

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:32

PevenseygirlQQ · 16/10/2025 19:25

I think the poster was more referring to some of the settlers that forcibly remove Palestinians from their homes and land

Well that’s illegal and disgusting and I would hope that this will stop if we ever get rid of BB. Again, not representative of regular normal lovely kind amazing worthy Israelis.

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:35

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 19:01

No. She wasn't confused. I've seen this too many times to believe that. It's a deliberate mudding of waters, mixing up of Jewish people and Israelis, westbank and Israel, is an effort to tar those that are critical of the illegal settlements as anti-Semitic.

Urgh.
Not a mistake. An attempt at a unjustified slur.

I got that 😉

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 19:35

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:14

Well that’s not what happened. And the Palestinians have made it very clear that any State they create will be Judenfrei. So you either support that or you don’t.

Not my country, not my business what their immigration laws are.

I imagine it's pretty much Buddhist free and Hindu free as well. It doesn't mean that it's ok for a bunch of Hindus to invade and set up home there, unless the immigration rules allow it.

Someone being Jewish doesn't mean they are above the laws of immigration 🙄

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:37

lljkk · 16/10/2025 19:17

About the missing bodies... I imagine the persons who buried them only know roughly where the body was put, but also other things were stashed nearyby, like guns or money. Don't want Israelis getting hold of those useful items.

There was a news article that said some of the hostages were buried by Hamas members that are now dead

Bumblebee72 · 16/10/2025 19:41

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:37

There was a news article that said some of the hostages were buried by Hamas members that are now dead

Given the IDF shoot anything that moves that doesn't seem unreasonable an explanation. It's probably challenging to find these bodies amongst the tens of thousands of people they have killed - all acceptable collateral damage according to many.

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:44

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:31

Sensationalist reporting of something that won’t ever happen. And the BBC are not even close to a non biased news source. I’m going to go speak to my cousin who is a counsellor for Meretz (very very anti settler and left!) in Jerusalem and see what this is about. Be careful though, you’re starting to look a little hateful and I’m finding it borderline offensive ok?

That’s a bbc news piece in May which I copied and pasted…!!!

Don’t tell me how to care for others
Don’t tell me it’s hateful to do so
You have no right and no idea who I am

I will copy any news articles I want
Clearly you really don’t know whats been going on as you say “ you’ll ask your cousin what this is about”. in your post
Time for reflection and education on reality

be careful though your starting to look a little hateful…. Sounds like a poster who doesn’t like others posting facts that distort their lack of them.

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:45

Bumblebee72 · 16/10/2025 19:41

Given the IDF shoot anything that moves that doesn't seem unreasonable an explanation. It's probably challenging to find these bodies amongst the tens of thousands of people they have killed - all acceptable collateral damage according to many.

I think it’s very very sad that families on both sides don’t know and may never know where their loved ones are

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:48

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:31

Sensationalist reporting of something that won’t ever happen. And the BBC are not even close to a non biased news source. I’m going to go speak to my cousin who is a counsellor for Meretz (very very anti settler and left!) in Jerusalem and see what this is about. Be careful though, you’re starting to look a little hateful and I’m finding it borderline offensive ok?

Suggest you read the blue highlighted text too
For more information

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:55

Bumblebee72 · 16/10/2025 19:30

You're calling people biased?

Modus operandi

Apparently I’m starting to sound hateful.
Wonder who’s next

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 20:06

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:32

Well that’s illegal and disgusting and I would hope that this will stop if we ever get rid of BB. Again, not representative of regular normal lovely kind amazing worthy Israelis.

It's fairly well known that the many Israelis wanted the 'war' to stop to get the hostages back, it was nothing to do with the stopping the slaughter of Palestinians.

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 20:10

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:25

Yes I got that, but thank you for clarifying. I meant that I don’t understand the concept of being content with being separated from the West Bank. They can’t be anything else because there is another country in between them no? And they’re also two separate clans so to speak. And not to mention it would be utter suicide for Israel if that conceit of joining them somehow came to fruition. I know you don’t like the Jews very much but they are human beings.

Please do not tell me that I do not like Jews - I find it offensive and to me it means that you are using your religion to try to shutdown what I am saying.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 20:42

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 19:55

Modus operandi

Apparently I’m starting to sound hateful.
Wonder who’s next

Me, me, me.

Oh wait, too late 😂

elprup · 16/10/2025 20:46

This is why I keep asking posters to clarify what they mean by "Palestine" - so far no-one has volunteered this info.

@camomilelawns I presume when people refer to Palestine they are talking about Gaza and the West Bank.

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 16/10/2025 20:55

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:14

Well that’s not what happened. And the Palestinians have made it very clear that any State they create will be Judenfrei. So you either support that or you don’t.

The word is Judenrein.

SinnerBoy · 16/10/2025 20:59

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 19:19

We may be misunderstanding one another. It is very clear that a Palestinian state/area will have no Jews living there. Much like the other 56 ethnoreligious Muslim countries in the world. No jews. That’s the main problem here. Two peoples, one has no problem with a diverse society (Israel, see the stats), and one wants zero Jews anywhere near them (see the stats and their government’s charter). It’s a bit like Cyprus. Southern Cyprus is diverse, northern (occupied) Cyprus, is not.

You mean like Iran? Where they have stipulated representation in their parliament and (theoretical) protection against discrimination? Yup, Iran. Iranian Jews have repeatedly asked Israel not to claim to speak for them, on account of life being hard enough as it is.