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What are Hamas playing at?

651 replies

elprup · 15/10/2025 08:13

It’s deeply worrying that Hamas haven’t returned all the dead hostages as agreed. I’ve seen comments saying it’s an impossible task given how Gaza has been reduced to rubble. But if that’s the case, they would have known they had lost the bodies. So why did they agree to return them if they knew they weren’t able to do so?

OP posts:
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Noodledog · 16/10/2025 16:22

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 14:02

the people they were executing were people from Israeli-backed groups who were executing other Palestinians - go and read about the killing of journalist Saleh Aljafarawi and then you might start to understand (that's just one example).

Where are you getting your information from? Hamas press releases?

Chiaseedling · 16/10/2025 16:25

Because they’re Hamas?

RaisedByRobots · 16/10/2025 16:28

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 14:02

the people they were executing were people from Israeli-backed groups who were executing other Palestinians - go and read about the killing of journalist Saleh Aljafarawi and then you might start to understand (that's just one example).

You actuskly think all the people Hamas are murdering in cold blood are genuinely collaborating with Israel? And that that makes them akin to Nazi collaborators in Greece?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-said-to-kill-wife-children-of-gazan-suspected-of-arming-pa-linked-groups/

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:29

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 16:07

Have you seen the settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank - Palestinian families are terrorised every single day by settler youths? Palestinians have killed by settlers who are protected by the IDF. It's truly shocking.

I absolutely hate the settlers for how they behave. They certainly don’t represent most Israelis I can assure you. The Palestinians and Israelis on disputed territories need to work out a way to live together because they both are there now and like in most other democracies, people of all faiths should live together no? It works in Israel, but not in Gaza or the territories. When you talk about the territories you’re talking about an area that isn’t considered Israel proper, and the settlers don’t represent Israelis. Both people are appalling, and I have no idea what the solution is. Until Palestinians accept that Jews are living with them like we all do within Israel, then this is only going to get worse. I’m using up a lot of energy talking to you and I only hope that your bias can be addressed and you can try to be balanced in your views.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:31

RaisedByRobots · 16/10/2025 16:28

You actuskly think all the people Hamas are murdering in cold blood are genuinely collaborating with Israel? And that that makes them akin to Nazi collaborators in Greece?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-said-to-kill-wife-children-of-gazan-suspected-of-arming-pa-linked-groups/

It doesn’t matter why they are doing it. It’s barbaric and horrific. End of.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:34

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 14:17

Netanyahu has openly admitted that he allowed Qatar to send millions into Gaza to Hamas to keep the Palestinians separated (from the West Bank).

This makes no sense. Gaza IS separated from the West Bank because Israel is in the middle. It’s not the West Bank of Israel, you know that, right? It’s the east of Israel. It’s called the West Bank because it belonged to Jordan - it’s the West Bank of Jordan - the Palestinians there are Jordanians. Obviously I’m simplifying it, but the people in the West Bank are in a completely different area.

cupfinalchaos · 16/10/2025 16:36

elprup · 15/10/2025 08:13

It’s deeply worrying that Hamas haven’t returned all the dead hostages as agreed. I’ve seen comments saying it’s an impossible task given how Gaza has been reduced to rubble. But if that’s the case, they would have known they had lost the bodies. So why did they agree to return them if they knew they weren’t able to do so?

Because they’re terrorists?

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 16:43

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:34

This makes no sense. Gaza IS separated from the West Bank because Israel is in the middle. It’s not the West Bank of Israel, you know that, right? It’s the east of Israel. It’s called the West Bank because it belonged to Jordan - it’s the West Bank of Jordan - the Palestinians there are Jordanians. Obviously I’m simplifying it, but the people in the West Bank are in a completely different area.

Edited

Yes I know that Gaza and the West Bank are separated and that is what his intention was - to keep it that way.

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 16:46

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:29

I absolutely hate the settlers for how they behave. They certainly don’t represent most Israelis I can assure you. The Palestinians and Israelis on disputed territories need to work out a way to live together because they both are there now and like in most other democracies, people of all faiths should live together no? It works in Israel, but not in Gaza or the territories. When you talk about the territories you’re talking about an area that isn’t considered Israel proper, and the settlers don’t represent Israelis. Both people are appalling, and I have no idea what the solution is. Until Palestinians accept that Jews are living with them like we all do within Israel, then this is only going to get worse. I’m using up a lot of energy talking to you and I only hope that your bias can be addressed and you can try to be balanced in your views.

I assure you that I listen to as many people as possible - Jews, Israelis, Palestinians, Muslims, Christians and I respect what you are saying and your point of view.

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 16:57

camomilelawns · 16/10/2025 14:45

Please don't try and second- guess my motivations.

You will see that I have backed up all my posts with links to support my argument. This makes it easier from interested parties to see the information.

Just chucking out inflammatory statements and then, when challenged, telling people to "google it", just seems a lazy way of conducting a discussion.

I've been trying to remember how I initially heard about it and have remembered it was on a BBC Panorama program (feb 2024) called "Hamas’s Secret Financial Empire" and it was Udi Levy (head of economic warfare for Mossad) who spoke about it and how he informed Netanyahu but he did nothing about it.

CrossChecking · 16/10/2025 17:28

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:29

I absolutely hate the settlers for how they behave. They certainly don’t represent most Israelis I can assure you. The Palestinians and Israelis on disputed territories need to work out a way to live together because they both are there now and like in most other democracies, people of all faiths should live together no? It works in Israel, but not in Gaza or the territories. When you talk about the territories you’re talking about an area that isn’t considered Israel proper, and the settlers don’t represent Israelis. Both people are appalling, and I have no idea what the solution is. Until Palestinians accept that Jews are living with them like we all do within Israel, then this is only going to get worse. I’m using up a lot of energy talking to you and I only hope that your bias can be addressed and you can try to be balanced in your views.

Can Palestinians unilaterally decide to move to Israel? Can they marry an Israeli and then move to Israel? It isn't just violent settlers as you know, it's every day Israelis looking for cheaper property moving somewhere they know isn't theirs without asking Palestinians if they are OK with it. It's double standards to expect that Israelis can move where they please so everyone can hold hands and get along but not to reciprocate.

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 17:33

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 16:29

I absolutely hate the settlers for how they behave. They certainly don’t represent most Israelis I can assure you. The Palestinians and Israelis on disputed territories need to work out a way to live together because they both are there now and like in most other democracies, people of all faiths should live together no? It works in Israel, but not in Gaza or the territories. When you talk about the territories you’re talking about an area that isn’t considered Israel proper, and the settlers don’t represent Israelis. Both people are appalling, and I have no idea what the solution is. Until Palestinians accept that Jews are living with them like we all do within Israel, then this is only going to get worse. I’m using up a lot of energy talking to you and I only hope that your bias can be addressed and you can try to be balanced in your views.

No.

The Israelis in the legal settlements in the West Bank need to leave. Palestinians do not need to give up any more of their land, and do not need to learn to live with the Israeli settlers.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:37

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 16:43

Yes I know that Gaza and the West Bank are separated and that is what his intention was - to keep it that way.

What other way is there? I don’t understand.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:39

CrossChecking · 16/10/2025 17:28

Can Palestinians unilaterally decide to move to Israel? Can they marry an Israeli and then move to Israel? It isn't just violent settlers as you know, it's every day Israelis looking for cheaper property moving somewhere they know isn't theirs without asking Palestinians if they are OK with it. It's double standards to expect that Israelis can move where they please so everyone can hold hands and get along but not to reciprocate.

First yes, in theory a Palestinian can live in Israel if they get married to an Israeli. Secondly, normal everyday Israelis don’t look for land in the West Bank. Please please please stick to actual facts.

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:39

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 17:33

No.

The Israelis in the legal settlements in the West Bank need to leave. Palestinians do not need to give up any more of their land, and do not need to learn to live with the Israeli settlers.

So you support a state with no Jews? Hmmm

HerNeighbourTotoro · 16/10/2025 17:41

elprup · 15/10/2025 08:47

Then as I asked in my OP, why agree to return them within 72 hours (or whatever the deadline was?)

Because what other option do they actually have?

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 17:48

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:39

So you support a state with no Jews? Hmmm

I support a Palestinian state with control over immigration, like any other country.

You can't just unilaterally rock up in someone else's land and take it over. That's invasion. Religion is irrelevant to this. The seekers have no more right to settle in the West Bank without permission then they do the West End of London.

PevenseygirlQQ · 16/10/2025 17:50

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:39

So you support a state with no Jews? Hmmm

Sorry where did they say that? I think it’s clear as day she means the West Bank and was referring to the settlers. You’ve pulled that one out of thin air

camomilelawns · 16/10/2025 17:53

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 13:59

a comment like this means you know zero about the occupation

Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip for nearly two decades following Britain’s withdrawal from Palestine in May 1948 and that lasted until 1967.
Egypt never purported to annex the Gaza Strip, instead treating the area as under military occupation. Egypt also enforced a strict curfew for several years.
Israel briefly occupied the Gaza Strip for several months during the 1956–1957 Sinai/Suez war but returned the area to Egypt. .
However, at no time during the nearly two decades of Egyptian occupation did the Palestinians ever demand self-determination in the Gaza Strip.
Moreover, the UN never condemned the Egyptian occupation or otherwise insisted on Palestinian statehood in the Gaza Strip.

Israel took Egypt from Gaza in the 6 day War in 1967. I do know that Israel hasn't occupied Gaza since 1994 when they pulled out - and they also pulled out of Jericho at the same time. (That was the time when Elections were held in Gaza and Hamas took control.)

King Abdullah of Jordan seized control of the West Bank area in 1948 and formally incorporated it into his kingdom in 1950.
He relinquished control of the area in 1988.

So what is it you think I need to know about the "occupation" ?

Cheeks4970 · 16/10/2025 18:23

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:37

What other way is there? I don’t understand.

I'm saying that Bibi wanted to keep the Palestinians in Gaza bolstered with cash from Qatar so that they were content being separated from the West Bank.

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 18:44

Jujujudo · 16/10/2025 17:39

First yes, in theory a Palestinian can live in Israel if they get married to an Israeli. Secondly, normal everyday Israelis don’t look for land in the West Bank. Please please please stick to actual facts.

May 2025 bbc news

“ Israeli ministers say 22 new Jewish settlements have been approved in the occupied West Bank - the biggest expansion in decades.
Several already exist as outposts, built without government authorisation, but will now be made legal under Israeli law. !!!!!

Others are completely new, according to Defence Minister Israel Katz and Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich.
Settlements - which are widely seen as illegal under international law, though Israel disputes this - are one of the most contentious issues between Israel and the Palestinians.
Katz said the move "prevents the establishment of a Palestinian state that would endanger Israel", while the Palestinian presidency called it a "dangerous escalation".

The Israeli anti-settlement watchdog Peace Now called it "the most extensive move of its kind" in more than 30 years and warned that it would "dramatically reshape the West Bank and entrench the occupation even further".
BBC team's tense encounter with sanctioned Israeli settler while filming in West Bank11 May 2025
Israeli settlers are seizing Palestinian land under cover of war - they hope permanently27 August 2024
Israel has built about 160 settlements housing some 700,000 Jews since it occupied the West Bank and East Jerusalem - land Palestinians want, along with Gaza, for their hoped-for future state - in the 1967 Middle East war.

An estimated 3.3 million Palestinians live alongside them.
Successive Israeli governments have allowed settlements to grow. However, expansion has risen sharply since Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu returned to power in late 2022 at the head of a right-wing, pro-settler coalition.

On Thursday, Israel Katz and Bezalel Smotrich - an ultranationalist leader and settler who has control over planning in the West Bank - officially confirmed a decision that is believed to have been taken by the government two weeks ago.
A statement said they had approved 22 new settlements, the "renewal of settlement in northern Samaria [northern West Bank], and reinforcement of the eastern axis of the State of Israel".
It did not include information about the exact location of the new settlements, but maps being circulated suggest they will be across the length and width of the West Bank.

Two years ago, a group of settlers established a Jewish religious school and an unauthorised outpost at Homesh, which Peace Now said would be among 12 made legal under Israeli law.
Nine of the settlements would be completely new, according to the watchdog. They include Mount Ebal, just to the south of Homesh and near the city of Nablus, and Beit Horon North, west of Ramallah, where it said construction had already begun in recent days.
The last of the settlements, Nofei Prat, was currently officially considered a "neighbourhood" of another settlement near East Jerusalem, Kfar Adumim, and would now be recognised as independent, Peace Now added.

Katz said the decision was a "strategic move that prevents the establishment of a Palestinian state that would endanger Israel, and serves as a buffer against our enemies."
"This is a Zionist, security, and national response - and a clear decision on the future of the country," he added.

Smotrich called it a "once-in-a-generation decision" and declared: "Next step sovereignty!"

But a spokesperson for Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas - who governs parts of the West Bank not under full Israeli control - called it a "dangerous escalation" and accused Israel of continuing to drag the region into a "cycle of violence and instability".

"This extremist Israeli government is trying by all means to prevent the establishment of an independent Palestinian state," Nabil Abu Rudeineh told Reuters news agency.

Lior Amihai, director of Peace Now, said: "The Israeli government no longer pretends otherwise: the annexation of the occupied territories and expansion of settlements is its central goal."
Elisha Ben Kimon, an Israeli journalist with the popular Ynet news site who covers the West Bank and settlements, told the BBC's Newshour programme that 70% to 80% of ministers wanted to declare the formal annexation of the West Bank.

"I think that Israel is a few steps from declaring this area as Israeli territory. They believe that this period will never be coming back, this is one opportunity that they don't want to slip from their hands - that's why they're doing this now,"

Mr Ben Kimon told the BBC's Newshour programme.
Israel effectively annexed East Jerusalem in 1980, in a move not recognised by the vast majority of the international community.“

So it’s clear what the intention is here for the West Bank and whether the majority of Israelis agree or don’t agree is irrelevant. Enough do to make their presence effective.
I don’t see any demos against it in Israel

Olayan Olayan, who was born in the village of Battir in 1941, overlooks a valley in which a new Israeli settlers outpost is built

Under cover of war, extremists are seizing Palestinian land – they hope permanently

Israeli extremists are working to make settlements in the West Bank irreversible, analysts fear.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c624qr3mqrzo

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 18:47

PevenseygirlQQ · 16/10/2025 17:50

Sorry where did they say that? I think it’s clear as day she means the West Bank and was referring to the settlers. You’ve pulled that one out of thin air

Agree. The West Bank is not part of Israel
Maybe that’s what led to the confusion ??

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 18:48

Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 17:48

I support a Palestinian state with control over immigration, like any other country.

You can't just unilaterally rock up in someone else's land and take it over. That's invasion. Religion is irrelevant to this. The seekers have no more right to settle in the West Bank without permission then they do the West End of London.

Exactly

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 18:59

HerNeighbourTotoro · 16/10/2025 17:41

Because what other option do they actually have?

Agree

Trump made it impossible for them to agree otherwise and News outlets said both Trump and Netanyahu acknowledged that Hamas told them they didn’t know where they all were and couldn’t access many

Faced with hand them all back or we’ll bomb ( Trumps words )
I think I’d agree and hope I can do whatever I could in the time

Perhaps they thought Theyd have access to all those bulldozers to move masonry….alas no

BBC news article 3rd October 2025

“ The announcement came hours after US President Donald Trump gave Hamas a Sunday deadline to accept the peace plan or face "all hell".

Earlier on Friday, Trump posted on his Truth Social platform:

  • *"If this LAST CHANCE agreement is not reached, all HELL, like no one has ever seen before, will break out against Hamas. THERE WILL BE PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST ONE WAY OR THE OTHER,"
Alittlefeedbackwouldbenice · 16/10/2025 19:01

DrPrunesqualer · 16/10/2025 18:47

Agree. The West Bank is not part of Israel
Maybe that’s what led to the confusion ??

No. She wasn't confused. I've seen this too many times to believe that. It's a deliberate mudding of waters, mixing up of Jewish people and Israelis, westbank and Israel, is an effort to tar those that are critical of the illegal settlements as anti-Semitic.

Urgh.
Not a mistake. An attempt at a unjustified slur.

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