What are Hamas playing at?

[elprup]

It’s deeply worrying that Hamas haven’t returned all the dead hostages as agreed. I’ve seen comments saying it’s an impossible task given how Gaza has been reduced to rubble. But if that’s the case, they would have known they had lost the bodies. So why did they agree to return them if they knew they weren’t able to do so?

Netanyahu has openly admitted that he allowed Qatar to send millions into Gaza to Hamas to keep the Palestinians separated (from the West Bank).

Go to the Amnesty International website and they will spell it out for you so you can understand it.

Taken directly from their website:

Fragmentation into domains of control
At the heart of the system is keeping Palestinian separated from each other into distinct territorial, legal and administrative domains
Dispossession of land and property
Decades of discriminatory land and property seizures, home demolitions and forced evictions
Segregation and control
A system of laws and policies that keep Palestinians restricted to enclaves, subject to several measures that control their lives, and segregated from Jewish Israelis
Deprivation of economic & social rights
The deliberate impoverishment of Palestinians keeping them at great disadvantage in comparison to Jewish Israelis

@CrossChecking

When and where was this documentated ?

@Cheeks4970
Segregation and control
"A system of laws and policies that keep Palestinians restricted to enclaves, subject to several measures that control their lives, and segregated from Jewish Israelis"

That makes sense given all the attacks that Palestinians have launched on Israeli citizens -

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr70ny0l7vgo

Deprivation of economic & social rights
"The deliberate impoverishment of Palestinians keeping them at great disadvantage in comparison to Jewish Israelis"

Arab citizens of Israel enjoy the same rights as Jewish Israelis, including the right to form political parties and stand for election, opportunities to serve as members of the Knesset, the judiciary, the diplomatic corps, and the police. These rights and privileges are totally foreign and anathema to an apartheid state.
The answer to claims of discrimination against Palestinian Arabs by explaining that Arabs residing in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip are not Israeli citizens and cannot claim rights due to Israeli citizens.
All countries favour their own citizens vis-à-vis non-citizens, and doing so is not an indication of discrimination simply because the two groups are treated differently.

Google it - you will find all you need.

go and read the Amnesty page on this

You made the claim, so you need to supply the proof.

Otherwise you're just blowing smoke. 🙂

I bet. It is appreciated but I can see this section of mn is a difficult one. Actually this is Aibu I was more thinking the CITME one.

there are a lot of articles written about it - you're just trying to make fun of me to avoid the truth

She lives in Israel sometimes. She knows exactly what is happening in the West Bank as do all Israelis. 10% of their population live in occupied territory. When 1 in 10 of your citizens live there and a lot of your children, brothers, sisters, friends etc are sent off to police the racial segregation you know exactly what is happening.

They don't object to what is happening or dispute that it is happening, it's all well documented, they just object to it being called apartheid and racial segregation rather than calling it keeping Jewish people who choose to live in illegal settlements in Palestine safe.

Please don't try and second- guess my motivations.

You will see that I have backed up all my posts with links to support my argument. This makes it easier from interested parties to see the information.

Just chucking out inflammatory statements and then, when challenged, telling people to "google it", just seems a lazy way of conducting a discussion.

That makes sense given all the attacks that Palestinians have launched on Israeli citizens

Yes they are so dangerous that ever increasing numbers of Israelis are choosing to live in Palestine. So scared of Palestinians that they just keep building more and more illegal settlements in Palestine. So terrified they just can't wait to move in!

This has to be the most childish response I've seen on here for a long time.

It’s pathetic isn’t it how apartheid deniers seek to justify …well apartheid.
Sick of hearing this on here

I think you are confused. (And I'm not surprised as it is a complex situation.)

This is why I keep asking posters to clarify what they mean by "Palestine" - so far no-one has volunteered this info.

Which is why IMO it was stupid of Starmer to recognise this "State" that so far has no designated area.

There are 3 possible areas under discussion,

Area A, which consists of most of Gaza and about 17 percent of the West Bank, is the most densely populated and urbanized. It is designated as fully Palestinian controlled under Oslo, including for civil affairs and internal security issues. However, Israel has waged an extensive military campaign in Gaza since October 2023 with the goal of eliminating Hamas, and it has therefore imposed more-stringent movement controls in the territory.

Area B covers nearly a quarter of the West Bank and mostly comprises villages and rural areas. Israelis and Palestinians cooperate on security here, but the PA manages all civil affairs. Israel also controls the movement of goods and people. Areas A and B have a combined Palestinian population of about 2.8 million.

Area C makes up the remaining land and mostly consists of pastoral areas. It contains most of the West Bank’s natural resources and is under full Israeli control, though the PA provides education and medical services to the area’s 150,000 Palestinians. The area is home to most of Israel’s settlers, who total some 700,000 people spread across the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Most live near the border with Israel, though international law dubs their settlements illegal.

So which bit would you like to discuss?

thanks - I value what you have to say so much :)

Hamas are terrorists, but then the Jewish terrorists in that area that killed British and Arabic people went on to form the Israeli government back when it was first formed. It is a state built on death and hate and there are awful barbaric people on both sides.

I’ve done one quick Google just to see really if one quick Google gives any information on this and yes
It does
So if others are interested in more info than I’m about to post it’s freely available
including Netanyahu denying all knowledge of course

personally I’m in favour always of providing proof but there’s a few Pro Israeli posters that ignore direct requests for proof irrespective of the level of inflammatory, so called, facts they post
So
On balance
Each to their own and perhaps @Cheeks4970 is as pissed off as I am that other pro Israeli posters are not called out for ignoring requests of proof the way pro Palestinian posters are.

reading.

‘Buying Quiet’: Inside the Israeli Plan That Propped Up Hamas
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas (but not too strong) would keep the peace and reduce pressure for a Palestinian By Mark Mazzetti and Ronen Bergman
Reporting from Tel Aviv and Jerusalem
Dec. 10, 2023
Leer en español

Just weeks before Hamas launched the deadly Oct. 7 attacks on Israel, the head of Mossad arrived in Doha, Qatar, for a meeting with Qatari officials.

For years, the Qatari government had been sending millions of dollars a month into the Gaza Strip — money that helped prop up the Hamas government there. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel not only tolerated those payments, he had encouraged them.

During his meetings in September with the Qatari officials, according to several people familiar with the secret discussions, the Mossad chief, David Barnea, was asked a question that had not been on the agenda: Did Israel want the payments to continue?

Mr. Netanyahu’s government had recently decided to continue the policy, so Mr. Barnea said yes. The Israeli government still welcomed the money from Doha.

Allowing the payments — billions of dollars over roughly a decade — was a gamble by Mr. Netanyahu that a steady flow of money would maintain peace in Gaza, the eventual launching point of the Oct. 7 attacks, and keep Hamas focused on governing, not fighting.

The Qatari payments, while ostensibly a secret, have been widely known and discussed in the Israeli news media for years.

Mr. Netanyahu’s critics disparage them as part of a strategy of “buying quiet,” and the policy is in the middle of a ruthless reassessment following the attacks. Mr. Netanyahu has lashed back at that criticism, calling the suggestion that he tried to empower Hamas “ridiculous.”

There’s more

I need examples of this. I’ll explain what I mean. So there’s Israel, there’s Gaza, then there are the disputed territories which are divided up into different areas. There’s a small area of Israel separating Gaza and the West Bank and they are “ruled” by different entities. You have Gaza which has a border with Egypt and Israel. You have the West Bank areas - some are part of Israel jurisdiction and some are under the PA. Within Israel itself you are a citizen with equal rights no matter what you believe, where you live or who you are. In Gaza there are no Jews because they were ethnically cleansed by their own government in order to give the land to the Palestinians. In the West Bank, there are areas where Jews cannot go by law, areas where they live in towns separately from Arab Muslims (used to be also Christians but not anymore) and areas which are considered “free for all” where Jewish residents are referred to as “settlers” because they cannot buy land where the Arabs live. Ok, so within Israel there is no Apartheid whatsoever. Universities, schools, hospitals, court houses, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Druze, etc etc work and have equal rights to great success. Israel is a diverse society on the whole and home to all faiths. The West Bank became a terrorist environment over the years during numerous intifadas because the Arabs and Palestinians don’t want to live with or share land with Jews so they attacked Israeli civilians with horrible results. Now there are checkpoints to prevent attacks. The segregation isn’t the Jews’ fault, it’s the Palestinians who refuse to have Jews on their land. All of what they consider theirs which is also Israel.

Here's an example:

Segregation is carried out by implementing separate legal regimes for Jewish Israelis and Palestinians living in the same area. In the occupied West Bank, Jewish Israeli settlers living in illegal settlements are governed by Israeli civil law, while Palestinians also living in the West Bank are governed by Israeli military law.

See. I knew you knew what was happening. You just think it's for 'security'.

Did these Jewish Israelis ask if they could move to Palestine? Can Palestinians just unilaterally decide that they want to move to Israel and then build cages around Israelis if they object for their 'security'?They cannot buy land so they just take it instead by force and you don't see a problem with that? Can an Israeli citizen marry a Palestinian from the occupied territories and live together happily ever after in Israel?

Have you seen the settler violence against Palestinians in the West Bank - Palestinian families are terrorised every single day by settler youths? Palestinians have killed by settlers who are protected by the IDF. It's truly shocking.

Palestine - the illegally occupied territories.

The landmark ruling of 19 July 2024 declared that Israel’s occupation of the Gaza strip and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, is unlawful, along with the associated settlement regime, annexation and use of natural resources. The Court added that Israel's legislation and measures violate the international prohibition on racial segregation and apartheid. The ICJ mandated Israel to end its occupation, dismantle its settlements, provide full reparations to Palestinian victims and facilitate the return of displaced people.

They are just scared cheeks, just protecting themselves from the awful Palestinians that they choose to steal land from.

BRICS. Unfortunately, all the international organisations have been corrupted by officials blatantly making decisions that agree with their nation's interests rather than making any effort at being impartial.