Controversial approach to Santa

[Lynsey953]

My children are 2 and 3 and I have never spoken to them about Santa. I've never said anything about him and they've never asked. We don't pay for them to see Santa and I don't allow other people to make a big deal about Santa in front of them (i.e. this present is from Santa, I would rather people say "this is from me merry Christmas").

This is how I was brought up and I have lovely memories of Christmas.

My sister in law is very upset by this and is worried that my controversial approach to Santa is going to ruin the magic for her kids. She has requested that we go to my parents house for Christmas day so that my kids don't ruin Christmas for her kids (8 and 9).

I am fine with this but I hadn't realised my approach was so controversial.

Is it? It's just what myself and my siblings always had.

We do the same. Didn’t realise anyone would take it as we’re ruining others Xmas 😂 Like you we don’t say Santa is/isn’t real we just don’t mention it and if Santa is in a book/mentioned at school then it’s not a big deal. It’s just a character like any other in books etc.

There’s a big difference between saying people don’t lie and being a trusted person who straight up and knowingly lies. every year people will be on here asking for ideas on how to ‘make’ their children believe. I think that’s wrong.

I want to be my child’s most trusted person and for him to know that I will never lie. That doesn’t mean giving the brutal truth all the time. Some questions he’s asked I’ve had to tell him he’s not ready to know the truth yet (he’s into history and had some hefty questions about WW2 when he was 7/8). Not all topics are age appropriate to have the whole truth but a world of difference between saying you are too young to know about everything that happened yet but I’ll tell you one day to nothing bad happened, or people weren’t hurt to preserve some sort of misguided innocence. I think it’s really important there is someone you can trust in everyone’s life. And for a child, that should be a parent or carer.

hand on heart I’ve never lied to DS but I have said I’m not ready to answer some questions or told him why I can’t say something. Most of the time I do give him the full truth. He knows well people do lie but hopefully that I, or his Dad, won’t lie to him.

That Is not to say we didn’t do make believe or pretend games when he was younger but the key difference is that he was in on the game.

I didn't do Santa either but made sure my children knew not to tell others who did believe.

You will be accused of destroying their imaginations and the 'magic' of childhood though ...

Just seems like a real shame to deny children one of the most wonderous and magical elements of the Christmas tradition to me. And for what? What does anyone gain from it?

I see no issue with this. Not everybody wants to teach their children about myths.

Entirely up to you OP. I think it’s definitely out of the ordinary but not controversial. It sounds like your kids still have a lovely Christmas. I genuinely wonder if they will choose to do the same thing, like you did.

Among my favourite childhood memories is the one of my and my siblings excitedly going down the stairs to see if he’d been. We have photos of this over the years. I just can’t imagine it being quite the same excitement if there were gifts but from my parents.

Having said that, DH and I are still deciding if we just want Santa to bring the stocking and some small gifts so we don’t ever need the conversation that he doesn’t bring high ticket stuff or electrical goods. 😂 So we’re looking for some middle ground.

I do agree it’s lying but I think the magic is worth it. I’m really glad my parents lied to us on this one.

Only on Mumsnet could Santa be weaponised! 😂

We had a compromise with my children that worked well for us. The stockings full.of small things that the children opened Christmas morning on the bed was from father Christmas, the big presents and presents from family were from whoever bought them.
We took them to see father Christmas and they enjoyed it.
When I was a child we were told father Christmas asked our parents to get certain things and we were taken to see him which was extremely exciting. I don't think I ever really believed in him but I enjoyed the pretence I think most children do. There was never any traumatic moment when I realised he didn't exist
Other families had other approaches but no one cared small children believe what they want to believe. As long as you don't push your approach onto other people that is ok.

In this family FC/ Santa has only ever brought relatively little things in stockings - other presents are from family, who will need to be thanked.
The excitement on Christmas Eve has always been huge though (through 3 generations!) so I can’t help feeling a little bit sorry for children who are denied that little bit of magic - it’s only for a very few years anyway.

I think I get your approach op, in that we didn’t go out of the way to stress Santa and just responded more to what they brought about it. I wouldn’t be keen on grandparents saying their gifts are from Santa either. BUT, I think you’re a bit naive as to how your choices affect others around you, and it’s good you are having this conversation to open your eyes a bit.

ie as a result of talking with people who’s kids are older than mine, we decided to do stockings from Santa and a couple of gifts from him, rest from us. My cousin made all gifts from Santa and one year one of her boys was so upset that his parents didn’t get him anything, but his friends parents did!

I also think it’s naive when people say I made sure my kids didn’t tell others. My daughter knew way earlier due to another kid and it was a bit of a thing in the circle of friends. Those parents were of the ‘I’m not into the big lie’ variety and others in the group were of the ‘we will protect the belief as long as we possibly can’. I kinda sat in the middle but after that experience I knew my young kids couldn’t be trusted to keep a secret like that, my nearly 10yr old can but my 7yr old couldn’t, certainly not a younger child.

No she doesn’t. That’s not her kids responsibilities to hold that weight. You can just explain some people don’t believe in Santa, there’s someone who doesn’t believe in many Christmas films!!

"When did Father Christmas start being called Santa?"

Probably around the same time that the UK adopted other US customs, such as school proms, baby showers, Halloween, Father's Day and so on.

To me, he will always be Father Christmas and not Santa - and he lives in Lapland and not at the north pole. 🎅

If you haven't experienced the magic of believing in Father Christmas then I can understand why you're not bothered about passing that on to your kids I guess.

I've seen it be a problem at school though when the kids have done something about FC (C of E school) - one teacher for example made a video for each of the kids from that free website and the kid whose parents 'didn't do' FC was really confused and upset.

Also when all the kids are talking about what Santa has brought them it's really upsetting to think he didn't bring you anything - especially when not getting presents from him is associated with being a naughty/bad child.

I feel really sorry for those kids.

We say Father Christmas in England.

It’s not compulsory but it’s not necessary to be a big misery guts towards everyone else who does it with their kids. It also tends to be the performative parents “I couldn’t possibly lie to little Billy.” “No little Billy we can’t participate because we don’t believe in ‘Santa’ dear.” said loudly for everyone to hear.

Of course it's unusual not to have Santa involved with young children. Do what you want it's your kids but dont try and pretend it's usual.

Surely once it comes up in school and all the kids are getting excited for it, your kids are going to think they've been 'bad' if Santa doesn't come?

My parents used to tie themselves in knots answering twenty questions as to how Santa got hold of all the presents from all the different members of our family with their own writing on the tags, I bet they'd have loved to have just never mentioned him 😅

It's unusual and the exact opposite of what I do as Santa is a big deal in our house but I don't think it's a big deal either. I don't consider it to be your responsibility or your children's responsibility to continue Santa for my own children, it isn't your job.

Children quickly learn that different people have different beliefs and the same goes for Santa. Not everyone even celebrates Christmas so Santa definitely doesn't go to them as well.

The magic of Father Christmas isn’t a harmful lie, it’s absolutely ridiculous to suggest that it is.

I was really cross when my 7 year old came home from school having been told by another child he wasn’t real and the gifts were from parents. If you’re going to tell your kids that, at least make sure they’re old enough not to tell others who want to continue the magic. It’s for such a short time it’s just really disappointing when other people don’t respect what others choose to do.

My kids don't think they've been bad. They just think those kids believe in something that they don't.
I personally think it's absolutely awful to teach children that Santa doesn't come to bad kids. What a message to send to your children, absolutely no compassion for those who might be growing up in poverty or abusive homes. You can do the "magic" without the emotional manipulation.

AFAIK he’s always been Santa in Scotland. I’ve a feeling that the name FC started in England around the time of WW1 -Santa Claus was felt to sound too German. It’s worth noting that 🎅🏻 is Pere Noel in France, too.

I think your approach is fine and your SIL is being weird. Your children are only 2 and 3 for goodness sake, they're at the slightly oblivious stage anyway!

We are low-key on Father Christmas in our house. We leave the mince pie out and he brings some little gifts in their stockings but that's about it. All other presents are from mum, dad, Uncle Jim etc. There is no link between gifts and behaviour because I agree that "if you're not good Father Christmas won't bring you any presents" is awful.

DD1 is in Year 4 so is 8 now and is definitely cottoning on. Any questions so far have been met with a noncommittal "hmm what do you think?" rather than outright lying to her. My plan if she asks me outright whether he's real or not is to tell her it's us leaving the stockings but that Father Christmas is a myth linked to the spirit of giving so now she's a grown up clever girl she gets to be Father Christmas for her younger sister.

E

He's been Santa for as long as Ireland, Scotland, and the North East of England have existed because he's always been commonly referred to as Santa/Santa Claus and even sometimes Santy in these areas. The name comes from Sinter Klass, aka Saint Nicholas. There are newspaper reports from these areas going back to the 1800s referring to Santa Claus and they predate the Americanised version. Halloween is also a tradition from these areas, it was taken to America by immigrants but it originated here.

Adults are much too literal about this stuff. You don’t need to make kids think Father Christmas is literally real (and indeed you shouldn’t because then they feel you’ve lied). What you do is you give the impression of FC as a magical idea. When they’re small there is no difference between magic and reality. When they get to about 6 or 7 they start gradually understanding that things like fairies are not ‘real’ but they don’t feel betrayed by that, it’s just a natural development in their imagination. With my kids they would ask if FC was real and I would just say he was magic with an enigmatic wink. They were happy with this and understood in the way kids do that things can be both real and not real. My youngest at the age of nine did say, ‘yes but of course you do the presents really’ and I said yes. No one was traumatised.

DS told a few children because when he asked me I didn't think to tell him to keep it a secret. I didn't realise it was that big a deal for so long for some families so it wasn't malicious, he was just interested in his new knowledge and I hadn't thought it through. He didn't talk about it after I told him not to but I still think no harm done.

The other one was that elf thing. I know about it obviously and that people make it move overnight into "hilarious" scenarios etc but I assumed everyone was in on it. I had absolutely no idea children believe it is actually magic and not just a toy from the shop and I had to backtrack quickly when I said something to another child about how inventive his parents were with the ideas for their elf. I really didn't know it had its own legend.