To send my academic child to a below average comp?

[Doncasterjan]

Due to various factors (change in catchment areas, lots of newbuild developments etc) it looks like the only secondary school my DD will get in to is our local comp. It's a big school, 9 form entry, with below average progress 8 and less than 40% Maths and English at level 4. My daughter is very academic and quiet and I'm really worried I've let her down.

We could look to move, but it's obviously a lot of disruption and upheaval (I also have a younger DD). Can't afford private.

What would you do? If we send her to the local school, what can we do to best support her education?

Sent both my kids to the local "average" comp, both got amazing exam results & made it to Oxbridge.

There is so much support out there online for bright kids who want to do well so they can supplement their own learning. I would have used tutors if needed but it wasn't.

My two made local friends and got a real understanding of what "comprehensive" means. They saw some sights behaviour-wise but the school dealt with all that well.

They both really enjoyed their Secondary school days.

Also worth bearing in mind that some Universities give contextual offers based on schools/areas.

Hmm. I was chatting to one of ds’s friends (year 9) who goes to a different school from ds. I had asked him which extra curricular clubs he was doing, and expressed surprise that he was doing lunchtime clubs every single day. He told me he has to do clubs so that he doesn’t have to go outside, because he ‘doesn’t like the teasing out there.’

I asked what the teasing was all about, and he said “Oh you know, wanting to work, get good marks and stuff.”

His school is ofsted outstanding, he’s doing well academically, and he says he likes school. That conversation made me a bit sad for him though.

So I don’t necessarily agree that it being uncool to work hard is something that stayed in the nineties.

Thanks again to everyone who's taken the time to respond.

Obviously I'm not going to let my child suffer years of bullying. I'm asking if it's worth giving the school a chance before making any drastic decisions around moving (which would cost us about 20k alone in stamp duty).

I’d say it’s worth giving the school a chance. Stamp duty, conveyancing and estate agency fees add up, and moving home is stressful. If I had my time again I’d send my DC to the same below-average comprehensive school (now an academy.)

I can’t see why not. If it’s terrible and you can’t make it work then you’ll have to change something. But there’s a decent chance it will
be fine and you can spend that £20K on enhancing whatever would benefit her most.

Cultural capital 👍, that's the thing.

"It does make me wonder how schools are meant to improve if all the middle class parents won't dream of sending their DC there."

Middle class kids/parents don't up standards though. They just dilute the bad results and bad behaviour. They are largely left to their own devices whilst the staff deal with a myriad of poor behaviour, under-provisioned SEN and disintegrating mental health. Actual kids living their teenage years like fish out of water so they can do their moral duty 'improving standards' by enduring shit ones.

Anyone watching Educating Yorkshire? Nice people, kids you can have a soft spot for, but hardly a bedrock of academic excellence is it?

I do not believe the 'bright, hardworking children will do well anywhere' trope.

They won't. It's bullshit. It's like expecting a child to grow up with healthy eating habits in a household where all they eat is junk

It's not bullshit at all. The most important factor is actually the home and having parents who are interested, encouraging and who value education. That is way more important than the school the child goes to.

I know plenty of kids in our part of London who went to some pretty average and even failing secondary schools but have gone on to do well and get themselves to decent universities. All had interested, supportive parents.

I disagree- a bright child won’t do well anywhere. No child can be expected do well anywhere.
It’s like saying children are resilient and will cope - they often just don’t have a choice and it can manifest in other ways.

They don’t necessarily need an academic school but they do need a calm and supportive environment. An apparently average school can still help the able pupil.

I don’t know why people (not directed at OP) expect children to put up with school environments, culture, disruption, bad interpersonal relationships and bullying when no adult would be expected to do the same.

ETA: parents may value education but the influence of peers becomes significant during the teen years and it is very difficult to value education if they don’t or are disruptive. It is a huge stress on the child.

I think it all depends on her, is she diligent?

I went to Cambridge from a not great comp so assumed DC would reach his potential in our local one, he did v well at primary. Unfortunately he underachieved in his GCSEs (compared to targets/ predicted/ peers elsewhere who seemed to be the same at primary). Some of the mixed ability classes didn’t help, he wasn’t hard working enough and doing fine relatively speaking didn’t help.

He did well enough to do his A levels of choice at a great sixth form so all is not lost for him, not at all. But keep a close eye and tutor if needed. There will always be some children who excel regardless. I suspect there are a lot like my DC who do worse than they could in a higher performing envt.

Good luck!

The OP doesn't seem to have described a terrible school, just an average one perhaps with a below par cohort. That doesn't mean it's a terrible place that will damage her child.
To achieve top grades you have to work hard. GCSEs require kids to learn a lot of content and to do that they need to work hard consistently right from the start of the course - making flashcards straight away, learning and revising as you go. Plenty of kids leave it to the last minute and are surprised when they don't get 9s.

There are so many online tutorials, YouTube videos, apps etc that can be used to supplement the school learning.
Parents need to get involved and encourage their kids to work hard throughout their GCSE and A level courses, it's a marathon not a sprint.
Tutors are available online too and aren't that expensive if you use a tutoring company.
As long as the school isn't an absolute dive, which this one doesn't sound as though it is, it is perfectly possible for a bright, well supported child to do well.
I speak as a parent of two kids who went to just such a school and who both came out with all 9s at GCSE and A* at A level.
I have friends whose kids went to other similar schools in the area and did well too. It is possible.

I think it’s more common for bright (not exceptional but let’s say top 15-20%) to coast a bit in secondary and come out with ok GCSE grades when in a higher performing/ selective school they would have done considerably better.

Of course there are examples of children in poor schools who smash it, but this masks all those who don’t reach potential. This is what I have observed..having seen both of these examples and changed my own views.

I totally agree with you @cloudtreecarpet. The OP hasn't mentioned violence, drug problems etc once, just lower than average GCSE results. I find it so disappointing that everyone assumes that the pupils must be badly behaved, that there must be bullying, that the teaching must be poor etc. simply because it's a state comprehensive in a less than perfect location.

Most people don't have any choice of school. Those of you in big cities are actually spoilt for choice as you have more than one accessible school. My nearest primary school was 5 miles away, my secondary school was 15 miles away. There were no other options.

Nice children are in every school, as Educating Yorkshire demonstrates. Strong exam results are also in most schools, as they will have a mix of abilities too.

I wasn’t referring to OP but to the comment that a bright child will do anywhere.
I even said an average school maybe fine if it is supportive.

However, what you describe isn’t the educational experience I want for my child if I had a choice. I don’t want them spending 7 hours at school and then having to learn content on YouTube and with tutors to make up for lack of teaching during the day (not a dig at teachers).

Nail on the head.

For many of us, provided that we can still get to our workplaces, the quality of the schooling available is the number one criteria for choosing an area to live in. Therefore we would certainly move house to access the best education available.

My own parents (and numerous others I know) could not afford a private education for all of their children so they looked very carefully at catchments and academic performance of schools in neighbouring areas, before looking for properties in the high performing ones and moving before we got to senior school level. This is in no way unusual for those who value education.

And yes in our case it certainly did outweigh the mild upheaval in moving. Our non university educated parents had the pleasure of seeing all of their children go to university and have well paying professional careers. I am certain that this would not have been the case had we stayed put and attended the poorly performing school - friends left there did not do well.

I failed the 11 plus and went to an average secondary school. I was top of the class in 6 academic subjects and there were teachers who went out of their way to help me. There was no private tutoring for kids like me back then. Later in life I went to uni, got a 1st and then went on to a Ph.D and became an acedemic. Bright children from average schools can still make it to a good uni. As others have said you will probably need to hire a private tutor now to give your daughter best advantage.

OP you need to think quite critically here.

Firstly, be realistic about how academic your DD is. You might not be able to predict exactly, but is she likely to get a string of 8s and 9s? Or a lot of solid 6/7s, or will she be hovering at the 4/5 boundary? All of these possibilities could be described as a ‘bright’ child.

Then look not at what the school does on average, but whether it has, and could continue to serve a cohort of children like your DD. If the grade average is 4-something then it’s unlikely that they’ve got many, if any, very high achievers. But in a large comprehensive cohort with an average of 4s, there could well be a large number of children with a clutch of very good grades. The law of averages, and poor attendance, may well be that number down.

So look less at the average, and more actual scores … and think, could this school serve a child like my child?

Interesting.

Not sure that moving house is the best denoter of how much you value education at all really. It may indicate that you don't recognise or value as much things like stability, community and environment maybe.

My point was that moving purely to be nearer a "better" school makes a very nuanced set of factors into a black and white decision.

I also don't agree that going to a better school = a more successful career or life. 2 of my wealthiest friends have 3 gcses between them, and the vast majority of my friends and family (and colleagues) went to the sort of state comprehensives mnetters deride and yet we are all out here working and enjoying our lives!

I know someone who went to one of the top performing girls' independent schools in the country - she's the only person I know who wasn't worked since being pregnant with her first baby! (A decade and counting).

I value education. I sent my dc to our local RI state comprehensive.