To send my academic child to a below average comp?

[Doncasterjan]

Due to various factors (change in catchment areas, lots of newbuild developments etc) it looks like the only secondary school my DD will get in to is our local comp. It's a big school, 9 form entry, with below average progress 8 and less than 40% Maths and English at level 4. My daughter is very academic and quiet and I'm really worried I've let her down.

We could look to move, but it's obviously a lot of disruption and upheaval (I also have a younger DD). Can't afford private.

What would you do? If we send her to the local school, what can we do to best support her education?

I went to a 10 form entry school. It was hideous.

Me too. And they still didn't have enough kids taking higher GCSE maths to fill the top set.

That’s crazy - 400 kids per year…!

I agree. I'd also try and look at staff retention - constant churn not great indicator.

We moved so kids ended up in a primary most tired to avoid - in year transfer and where places were - but it was actually very good - older two had small years and got pushed and a lot more attention. DD2 less so - partly a new teacher with less ambitions but also a full class by then but it was still perfectly fine experince for her.

Secondary - we chose one that had a steady climb.. Year before second child was to start and just before eldest had choses and started in Y9 some GCSE it went to shit. WOnce eldest had started GCSE we were stuck here as next child started when one finished.

They did well academically - I think girls would have done even better else where but it was more than enough to go elsewhere for A-levels - DS did brilliantly mostly due to us at home as his GCSE were a mess.

They all got fed up of constant class disruptions even in top sets and bullying was not dealt with at all - pastoral care which had been excelent when DD1 started was stripped out and completly gone by next child start. They were all very pleased to leave for sixth form. Older two at uni - but then DH and I are both graduates and it di feel we had to constantly fight low expecations school trhew at them.

However you appraoched the school - and not just us other parents - SLT were immediately hostile and defensive. It was pretty awful all round TBH - we were all glad to be done with them. Socially they all had friend groups - though at times they all had issues mostly before group changes.

I did speak to another parent her kids cousins were at best state school in area and they had so much just on tap D of E- orechestra spot events school would get coaches for - she was replicating as much as possible often through girl guides but it was a lot of work and money on them. C school groups would start and reapily peter out.

You can't move in year here - there are no places at other schools - cheaper housing mean families have moved here since we did and school places that were once there just aren't - there actually school building in area. So I'd look into that before assuming an in-year move will be possible.

If it's that school or nothing - keep a close eye on her education and step in as soon as it looks needed - don't wait. Make sure she gets ambitious messaging from home - it may be less an issue at the your school but be aware. Make sure she does stuff outside school - so if friendship groups go south she knows it's not her.

If it's a soild but not so great school with good behavior where bright ones get a lot of attention - could easily be very postive experince for her.

I was your child. Please consider moving.

I was a quiet academic child at a poorly performing local comp (a long time ago!). GCSE pass rate was about 30%. Academically I don’t think I particularly suffered, I got good grades and I’m now an academic with a PhD. I wasn’t an outlier either, most of the middle class kids also did well. There just weren’t that many of us.

The thing that has stayed with me though was the atmosphere of threat and violence - there were a lot of fights and the basic social hierarchy was based on toughness. To be clear I wasn’t directly bullied or beaten up, this was just a general thing about being in school that if you looked at someone wrong or if they perceived you as a social threat, you might get beaten up. I didn’t realise how much anxiety this had given me until I was an adult because I thought it was normal at the time. I also never mentioned this to my parents as again I just thought this is what schools were like.

I don’t want to tar all comps with the same brush as this was a long time ago and a lot of similar schools are great safe places. But just to add in my experience that this is the element of my school that I would be most worried about a child (especially a sensitive one) having to deal with, rather than academics or social stuff.

Thank you again for all your feedback.

Private definitely not an option. I have two children, and although we have a decent income, that certainly doesn't equate to thousands of pounds leftover a month.

It does make me wonder how schools are meant to improve if all the middle class parents won't dream of sending their DC there.

I'm on waiting lists and not opposed to moving, but that obviously won't be a quick or cheap process.

I have no reason to believe the school is unsafe or ripe with bullying.

Upset with myself that we've ended up in this situation. Trying to keep things in perspective but it does feel like I've failed my DC to a certain extent.

But you haven't failed them at all. Many oc us live in areas with no other options. A tiny % of the country has grammar schools and few can afford to send their children to private school even if they wanted to.

Your children have one of the most important parts of receiving a good education because you are engaged and want them to do well. We could have sent our DD to a private school, but it worked to her benefit to go to our nearest state school. There's no reason why your DC also won't succeed. There are far more successful stories than horror stories.

Go and see the Head/leadership team and ask about the more academically able children? Also, it might be worth looking at private school bursaries, much more money than a scholarship gets you.
You can only ask, no harm can come from that.

Don’t do it. Move.

I would visit the school and go from there. It may be a very good, supportive environment. Or it may not.

If it seemed bad I would 100% move.

My DD is 1 and we have already agreed we will move him if necessary to get her into an OK school.

Would love to go private but probably can’t afford it. (My younger self would cringe to hear me say that but there you go.)

I should say we’d move for secondary school, not primary.

There must be other options.
What year is she in currently? Any schools which are selective and not private?
What are the waitlists like for other schools - is there generally much in year movement?
If there is you could work with her and support her constantly so she is not too far behind when a place comes up.
It sounds like a very poor choice.
One of my DD's went out of borough for a better school, another got a place at an excellent school in borough through entrance exams.
Good luck.

Do it, but supplement with tutors. That's what I do. My children went to a prep school until they were 13, so they are miles ahead of the majority of their classes. The tutors help them by providing material at their level while at school they're sailing ahead.

My stepsons are academically gifted. My DH had to take his ex wife to court due to a dispute about school choices as she wanted to send them to a school that needed improvement, purely because it was convenient for her location wise.

DH wanted to send them to a school that had an excellent Ofsted report that wasn't much further away. The judge recognised this was the correct choice.

Eldest SS is now at a top university doing MORSE, having excelled in GCSEs and A Levels. Would he have achieved this at the other school? Maybe/maybe not? Having fantastic teachers, facilities and likeminded peers no doubt made a difference and both boys appreciate they ended up in the better choice.

If your DD is gifted I'd being doing all you can to get her into the best school possible.

It does make me wonder how schools are meant to improve if all the middle class parents won't dream of sending their DC there.

I agree. The MC engaged/tutoring parents pick school X, move to get into it if necessary. so its results go up, meanwhile school Y’s results suffer, and this cycle continues until the gap between them is enormous. It is a real problem and schools do end up “stuck” with their place in the local hierarchy.

IMO this gap between different comprehensive schools is as big a source of educational inequality as the existence of grammars or private. And yet it’s hardly talked about in comparison.

My DC was from a single parent family (me), went to an average comprehensive, never had any tutoring and achieved top grades at GCSE/A-level followed by an Oxbridge First. I wouldn’t worry if your DC is academically able.

I really don’t think you need to see this as failing her! Just keep an eye and see how she gets on - and make sure she knows she is allowed to say she doesn’t like it.

Honestly academically I don’t think it’s that much of an issue- if she’s bright, interested and reads then she’ll be fine. I found at uni I was a better independent learner than a lot of the kids who’d been to posher schools and were used to so much more structure and prodding. I don’t think that’s just me as there’s evidence state school kids outperform private school kids once they get to uni.

I only shared my experience of the impact of all the fighting because it’s the aspect of school I didn’t pinpoint as difficult at the time, so it might be worth checking out - rather than to imply this is what you’re condemning her to!

A lot of the experience was positive and it left me with a strong sense of my own advantages in life, ie an understanding that a lot of the reason I’d done well was because I lived in a warm, safe, loving house full of books not due to my inherent brilliance. I think was a really useful, grounding and motivating perspective to go into life with. Tbh I think it has been a lot more useful than any slightly better grades I might have got at a posher school.

Would you consider the religious school?

Just to add to my previous post after seeing your responses since- I think you are thinking deeply and keeping an open mind. I don't think it's a guaranteed disaster by any means and in your position would probably try. Good advice on finding out more about behaviour, setting, staff turnover. Is your child open with you- would they say if they were finding it hard or feeling left out?

Personally I think you should be doing everything you can to get your DD into a better school. The culture in a school like the one you've described can have a really negative impact on your DD's development. I get that it's very un-PC to be judgmental of a low-attaining school, and yes I'm sure there are those that do well despite the challenges. But let's be honest for a moment here. She will be in classes with disruptive children who don't value their education, and this is likely to affect her learning.

If there's no other option, so be it. Just make sure that you are helping her to think about her future career choices, where to study, and so on.

it does feel like I've failed my DC to a certain extent

Absolutely not! You said yourself, catchments have moved, how could you plan for that?

And as PP said - the most important element by far for a child’s future chances, statistically, is having interested, engaged parents. And your DD clearly has that.

My two went to our local secondary - very mixed cohort, some very MC bits but also some very deprived bits. They ended up in top sets and ended up with a raft of top grades and excellent friendship groups.

Our only other option was over half an hour by bus each way - costly and exhausting, and later turned out to be a highly academic bearpit of bullying so we were glad not to have picked it.

If there's any alternative, I wouldn't.

I went from being top of the class, gifted and talented etc, in yr 6 to skipping school and cutting myself by year 8.

There were 5 of us on the 'top table' in primary. The teacher always mentioned we were a particularly clever cohort, got us to do all these mensa level tests, joked to our parents about oxbridge etc. Of the 5 of us, only 2 of us made it to A level and, like I said, I was near suicidally depressed and the other girl had significant issues with drugs (tbf she is doing really well now 20 years later).

Obviously some of that could have happened anyway with teenage hormones etc, but my parents still feel guilty now, looking back they say that the child I was and teenager/person I became are like two completely different people. I went from outgoing, happy, hardworking, to introverted, depressed, unenthusiastic about anything.

You can't imagine how depressing it is to be bored for 8hours a day, every day, or how quickly you learn to not put your hand up, answer any questions or show the tiniest bit of enthusiasm for fear of being bullied.

Some of these responses are wild.

It's worth bearing in mind that the Ofsted and data driven education systems of today just don't allow for the kind of coasting that may have gone on when some of us were at school.

It is pretty mad to suggest that huge schools with 9 form entry are made up of families who have no real interest in their children's education. A school that the OP has clearly stated has lots of trips and extra curriculars is not going to have staff that leave every 5 minutes and don't go above and beyond- that's not how residentials, trips and clubs happen.

Suggesting that you 'just move' to get into certain schools is also a bit ott. Moving costs huge amounts of money and takes energy and resources. It also impacts on support systems, friendships and access to facilities etc. Being part of a stable community is a big benefit to young people's outcomes too and shouldn't be devalued.

The vast majority of university entrants each year will have gone to their local state school. Most people you know will have too. Huge areas of the country have very very little choice over where their children go to school - single institutions, no public transport etc.

My dc went to our local comp. It was RI and undersubscribed when they started. It has always had kind and engaged staff and lots going on. We supported and encouraged dc to put their hands up, join in and say yes to all offers. They've been on loads of trips, done dofe, loads of sports and been in fantastic plays. They have lovely friends and enjoy school. They have also witnessed and been exposed to some pretty tough stuff and had to endure some disruptive behaviour. They have made good choices and learned that they are very very lucky.

Their interests and abilities have been nurtured and they have or are predicted to achieve brilliant results. No worse and in some cases much better than my friends' dcs who suddenly became very interested in religion when their dc were in year 4, or those who have spent the last 5 years travelling for hours on buses at the start and end of every day, or gone to selective schools miles away and where they can't be part of any extra curricular stuff because there's so many overachievers to pick from and compete for places with.....

It is a massive oversimplification to state that if you just move or if you go to a school with different data that your child will thrive, do well, have nice friends and be happy. The vast majority of the wished for outcomes are down to a lot more than just which school they go to.