Why can’t the Israelis and Palestinians just live in peace?!!

[elprup]

Surely that’s what the overwhelming majority want. Let’s face it, 99% of us just want to get on with our lives in a quiet, peaceful way and do the best for our kids. So why can’t they all just lay down the weapons and live together, in harmony? Open the borders and live as one, forging a brighter future for their kids?

This.
Male dominated religions used as an excuse by other men to slaughter in the name of [ insert name of "God"]

Isn’t one of the reasons Hamas went in when they did because Israel and various Muslim Middle Eastern and African nations had signed the Abraham Accords, and the last thing the likes of Hamas (read Iran) want is Israel and the Middle East improving relations?

Edited to add - bit like Putin going after Ukraine as Ukraine crept closer towards EU membership.

That’s total bs. Most Palestinians just want to get on with their lives and bring up their families in peace, like most Israelis.
And as for the assertions made in your post, I think the boot is on the other foot. In case it’s escaped your attention, Israel has done a pretty good job of obliterating Gaza, killing tens of thousands of Palestinians in the process, and Zionists (of whom there are many in the current Israeli government) think all Palestinian land is rightfully Israel’s, and settlers are gradually rolling back the borders illegally, tacitly supported by the Israeli government and with the protection of the IDF.

Israel has also created a culture of hate. Will there be a de radicalisation of Israelis as well? Let’s not forget the illegal settlers or the right wing politicians who are determined that they have a ‘greater Israel’.

Easy to blame the other side without looking at the behaviour of everyone involved.

It has always been Jewish land.

If it wasn't, why is the temple in Jerusalem below the Mosque?

Islam didn't arrive on the scene until the 7th Century BC.

Abraham, founder of the Jewish people was born about 1960BC. The Israelites entered the "Promised Land" about 1460 BC

I’d encourage you to read the book Palestine: A 4000 year history. The area and people have been Palestine since at least the Bronze Age, though yes under repeated colonisation.

I think OP is asking this in good faith. OP if you want to understand the answer to this you will have to start listening to/reading/watching some history, going back to 1917. It will involve a bit of effort. (You will come under pressure not to do this - not to learn about history- I come back to this below.)

You could read a book called ‘A very short history of the Israel-Palestine conflict’ by a historian called Ilan Pappe. (I think an Israeli historian now based at Exter University in the UK.) It is £8.40 on Amazon.

Another starting point if you have Spotify would be to look up the podcast called ‘Empire’. (I think it is a Goalhanger production.) Episode 40 is on the Origins of the Israel/Palestine conflict and you could make yourself some tea & listen to that. (I find the presenters a bit irritating but they are less so in this episode, less chat and more focus.)

You will find that there is enormous pressure NOT to make yourself aware of the historical background to this hideous death & suffering. I think on the contrary it is our duty as citizens of a democracy to be aware of a bit of history, particularly when so much death is involved. I mean that really seriously- it is a duty to inform ourselves.

I would also say that if people don’t want you to be aware of the history involved, in any context, that is a very bad sign and that you should be suspicious about what they don’t want you to know.

Knowing history improves our knowledge! In all areas not just this! Be wary of people who don’t want that, in any context, & ask why.

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) if you do start learning about this history, you may start thinking about politics and justice, and how they affect our children’s future, much more.

I'm afraid I do not remember who said it - but some years ago I saw a play called "Oslo" (which was about the Oslo Peace Accords between Israel and the PLO) and I remember in the programme it was also quoted as the classic diplomatic conundrum

You are missing the whole point. Palestine was uniquely created by Arab leaders as an entity to confound Israel within the region and create a rallying point. It did not exist before. The people who call themselves Palestinian now are by heritage from the wider Arab region with many being displaced Jordanians. They are fighting for an ideal ( Arab controlled Jew free land) not an established historical area.

The inhabitants of Canaan were known for their polytheistic religious practices, which included the worship of deities such as Baal, Asherah, and Molech. These practices often involved rituals that were abhorrent to the Israelites, including child sacrifice and temple prostitution.

The Jews/Israelites were more civilised and monodeistic.

This neatly illustrates why there will never be peace.

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).
The Slogan of the Islamic Resistance Movement:

Have you read about the settlements in The West Bank?

That too!

Hamas did the dirty work for the rest of the Arab countries (basically Islamic countries by religion and culture).

It pains me to start to think this way, but a lot extremist Islamic thinking at the moment is aggressively Jew hating and anti- Western. The West is by no means perfect, but we’re past hatred of Muslims just for being Muslims, I hope. It’s the issue of integration and living in civil society, not blowing people up in Tube carriages or at music concerts.

@Danioyellow you know that was a typo. It's people like you who cause conflict.

Religion is the root of it, and while religion is such a big part of their lives peace will not be lasting.

This is a great summary. Maintaining ethnic supremacy for one race in any geographical area means continuous war, death & suffering.

Any doctrine of ethnic supremacy - the ‘superior race’, ‘God’s chosen people’, a nation state ‘for white people’, the ‘white homeland’, whatever form it takes across history & geography - is malignant. In an area like the Middle East, of historical mixed ethnicity, a doctrine of ethnic supremacy will inevitably lead to apartheid, ethnic cleansing, and ultimately slaughter and genocide. As we have seen on our phones all too clearly.

The way racism has been normalised in western discussions of Palestinian people- as seen in so many posts this thread- is horrific.

Because they both believe they ‘own’ the same area of land. Common sense tells you that when 2 people, 2 tribes, 2 countries, whatever, believe they own the same thing, they will fight for it. No one will just smile and shrug and say ‘let’s share’. That’s not the way it worked when we were cave people and essentially nothing has changed and nothing will as long as we are still humans.

Important stuff worth repeating.

interesting that on October 8th pro-Palestinian public protests started. The day after the Jew hating butchers slaughtered 1200 people simply for being Jews.

Reflect on that. The day after the biggest pogrom since the Holocaust. The day after.

James Barr’s book A Line In The Sand is really recommended background reading- explains how British and French colonialism helped to create and perpetuate the current mess that the Middle East is in. It’s not just a situation of Arab/Israeli making, the Western nations bear a responsibility too.

This was borne out in the elections in Gaza. in 2005.

The results were inconclusive and the two Palestinian Parties wouldn't agree to a power-sharing arrangement. Hamas took control by murdering most of their opponents.

So it seems the Palestinians can't even co-operate among themselves and act like unevolved tribes.

If they were always Arabs, that means they didn't always live there. Arabs are from the Arabic peninsula, not the Levant. Of course, there were conquests of the land and therefore heavy migration followed. But Arabs are not the indigenous population of Israel or the Palestinian territories.

That does NOT mean that I don't think they belong there now - of course they do. You can't reverse historical migration on that scale, that would be absolute insanity. It doesn't change the fact that your post is factually inaccurate though.

@Xenia yes we mixed but also religion is separated from the state , we went through the enlightenment, many famous people became non religious and its grip has been loosened so we can mix .unfortunatly some of these religions have their "believers " brain washed from day 1 and your born it like a race , you can't leave it .
Trapped.

You're very presumptuous. Israel may be your friend, but it's certainly not mine so drop the "our". Are the Jewish people my friend? Yes. But are Zionists? No - definitely not.

From the Hamas Charter (too long to reproduce in it's entirety)

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it” (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al­Banna, of blessed memory)."

"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized."

"The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said:
The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews. When the Jew will hide behind stones and trees, the stones and trees will say, “O Muslims, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews.” (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim)."

"Initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences, are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement."

"Since this is the case, liberation of Palestine is then an individual duty for very Muslim wherever he may be. On this basis, the problem should be viewed. This should be realized by every Muslim."

"The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised "

There is much more but I think the aims are clear.