Why can’t the Israelis and Palestinians just live in peace?!!

[elprup]

Surely that’s what the overwhelming majority want. Let’s face it, 99% of us just want to get on with our lives in a quiet, peaceful way and do the best for our kids. So why can’t they all just lay down the weapons and live together, in harmony? Open the borders and live as one, forging a brighter future for their kids?

I think most people were not aware of the background to the NI conflict, rather than not caring. I think it was presented to the English as being the English saving everyone from terrorists, and people didn't look further than that. These were the days before the internet. It was the Cranberries song Zombie in my generation which started to inform people who I knew, funnily enough. Whereas now we can all find out about the history of the Palestinian conflict going right back to 1917 with the Balfour Agreement and you can see copies of the Balfour Agreement and the Mandate for Palestine and everything which has happened since at a click of a button. You have to dig around though. It is the same with the Ukrainian conflict, there isnt clear information in once place but is is easy to find information on the Orange Revolution and the changes in society before and after that and the increase of conflict (and dare i say the fact that it was apparently funded by people who were not Ukrainian or Russian), the start of EU trade agreement negotions in 2007/8, US involvement and funding as well as the Russian information as you can translate Russian with a click.

i think that as soon as people become informed they care, and they want it to stop.

It isn't just land, I don't think. It is control, resources, profit at the root of most of them

Thank you. You have written a good post.

Isn't it kind of shocking that the U.K. don't teach what happened in schools.

Its like they edit out anything where the U.K. was bad to other countries. I mean - you can't do that!

Its whitewashing and its similiar to how Israeli young people are taught that everything is Palestine's fault and nothing is Israel's fault.

I have German friends, and they have told me that that they are taught in detail what happened in WW2 and are brought around concentration camps. That is the right wag.

Its not the average UK persons fault - what happened in Ireland. But its important that they at least know what happened. The UK government and the education system should teach it in schools.

I wish so many wars hadnt started over land. Usually by male leaders. We need more female leaders workdwide for more peace and balance.

I don't think it is anything to do with being male of female. Some female leaders in the EU are not doing a great job at stopping esclation to ww3 at the moment. It is to do with bringing people up with empathy, like you said upthread, and with values which put the value of human life over excessive profits, probably, and that applies to both sexes.

In relation to education, the level of education when it comes to history/politics in the UK has been poor since the 1960s in most state schools. It should be improved everywhere, I agree.

Male female balance is important in the wolrd, especially in male leaders. If anything gets severely out of balance, it causes problems.

Several male leaders have come out and said this also. That we need more female leaders. Barack Obama was one who said it.

@Helenalove Did you not read my previous post?

I'll post it again

Britain does not occupy Northern Ireland; rather, it is a constituent part of the United Kingdom since the Government of Ireland Act 1920.
Northern Ireland has its own devolved government and is not a separate foreign entity, sharing a border with the Republic of Ireland.
The Good Friday Agreement of 1998 ensures that any change in its status would require the consent of its population.

I do think you’re right, although I wonder if there comes a time when this ceases to be the case and whoever lives in a particular places becomes “from there”, and allowed to decide. However, there are more people from an Irish/ Catholic background in NI than British/ Protestant now I believe, so we’ll see what people choose to do going forward.

This is why the Good Friday agreement worked so well when the UK was in the EU and doesn’t any more.

The ideal for NI would be to move towards a federal Europe, or at least a more closely united one, of which both UK and Ireland were both a part. That’s where I thought and hoped we were going with it all until 2016.

I’m British/ Italian but went to schools where most people were Irish so was sort of brought up to see things from the Irish pov if that makes a difference! This might also be why I always hoped for a united Europe as that’s my main identity.

True - but we need those female leaders who would rise in a system that is not a patriarchy, not just the female leaders who can rise whilst living in one.

We need people - both men and women - with the qualities that would lead to success in a balanced society.

@Helenalove "Its like they edit out anything where the U.K. was bad to other countries. I mean - you can't do that!"

What utter poppycock !

Schools go overboard now to teach that the British were big bad colonisers and we should be ashamed of our colonial history. Apparently we should be ashamed of our flag and ashamed to be British, well 'bottoms' to that, I'll fly the Union Jack outside my house and Y Draig Goch as my in laws are Welsh.

So stick that up your jumper !

You asked me to explain why UK isn't occcupying NI.

I gave my response.

I can't help it if you don't like it 🙄

You are wrong, as I proven with multiple historical facts.

I put a historical fact. You ignore it. That is extremely immature

How come you don't know anything about what happened between the U.K and Ireland then?

You are coming across as extremely ill informed of what happened.

I don’t think they “go overboard to”. They just teach more of the full story about colonialism- there’s nothing scary or unpatriotic about that - we can’t truly love this country if we kid ourselves about its past as we can’t then move on (also see Brexit).

They do all also teach “British values” and usual have a flag as part of a display somewhere.

Edit - you need to read Timothy Snyder about how countries that hold on to imperialism are never going to be about to function as mature democracies. He’s primarily talking about russia and their approach to their past and current imperialism, but he goes on to talk about how EU countries need to be able to divest themselves of this imperialism in order to be a functioning part of such a union. The UK never managed it and that’s how we’ve ended up with the Brexit shambles.

They definitely don't teach the Irish -UK conflict in a lot of U.K. schools.

I have friends from the UK. Many of them were never taught anything about it.

To be fair, Barack Obama was not hugely successful when it came to maintaining peace and balance in the world.

I think he is being investigated now in relation to misinforming people that there were outside influences in relation to the 2016?

The best people to lead are those with the right skills, we can't promote women just because they are women. It has to be a meritocracy.

We also just can't promote men because they are men. As we all know, women were kept down in politics by men for a long time. And it is still happening today.

Currently, women make up a fairly small percentage of leadership roles in the UN Member States. In these 193 Member States, only 21% of Prime Ministers are women.

Governments decide what happens to the people in the country, so it is hugely important to have a gender balance in Governments

We can't promote/vote for men just because they are men.
We can't promote/vote for women just because they are women.

Having a women in power does not make is less likely that we will go to war for land, or anything else, was the point I made. Several women in Europe are very pro war, and Kamala Harris would have pursued the war line too if she had got in (she said).

Does Timothy Snyder say that what is happening in Ukraine is about imperialism? If so I thought that current thinking was that it is about (or caused by) globalism, not imperialism?

In relation to Europe, what is he saying European countries need to do about imperialism, is he saying they should stop any influence abroad, such as removing all presence and influence in other countries such as Africa?

Thatcher too, in relation to Philippines.

You raise a lot of interesting points!

Are you saying that the GFA doesn't work for NI any more because most people want to be aligned with Europe not the UK?

In relation to Europe, do you not think that Europe right now is completely failing, with such high living costs a lot of normal people are really struggling day to day? I live in the EU. Just paying for food and petrol is becoming increasingly difficult, i am seeing more and more people around me struggling, mostly older people, and more and more businesses shutting. I don't want to be negative but I think the leadership need to address these things. There are demonstrations in more than one country about leaving the EU and leaving NATO (and spending the defence budget on basics like housing). The EU seem to be incapable of effective geopolitical management and negotiation too. Or am I being overcritical? Not that the UK on its own is a beacon of hope at the moment either.

We actually can promote women just because they are women. Especially in an area such as politics, where women have been kept down and discriminated against for a long time.

Looking at Ireland as an example.

The percentage of women in Government in Ireland was extremely low. One of the problems was because the Government parties kept nominating men, so voters had no choice but to vote for men.

Ireland introduced gender quotas into politics. Now politicial parties when make nominations, at least 30 percent of the candidates must be women.

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I don't agree with quotas at all. I think they are patronising and unnecessary and dangerous to women. I think women will be able to be successful on their own merit without help, as long as we have laws about equality, and enforcement of laws. The way to ensure positive changes for the future, in education we need to empower both girls and boys and treat them equally and give them the right expectations that hard graft will lead to success, not sex. (As well as teach about root causes of conflicts such as NI!)

@Helenalove

It's not really clear what your agenda is here, but you have successfully taken over a thread about Gaza and pretty much put off anyone who might want to talk about Gaza . Do you do this in real life too?