Why can’t the Israelis and Palestinians just live in peace?!!

[elprup]

Surely that’s what the overwhelming majority want. Let’s face it, 99% of us just want to get on with our lives in a quiet, peaceful way and do the best for our kids. So why can’t they all just lay down the weapons and live together, in harmony? Open the borders and live as one, forging a brighter future for their kids?

I’m not sure it is. People have used religion as an excuse going back to the crusades (and probably before then, too). But really, it’s to do with land grabs and asset stripping, isn’t it? Whoever has the most land and the most assets has the most power. Religion is just the excuse they use to take what they want.

Look, even if Palestinians & Israelis got to place where they were no longer a risk to one another which is possible if Ireland is anything to go by, from the Israeli perspective, their Jewish culture would be eventually 'bred out' by the sheer differences in numbers. They, like many other western nations are steeped in fear about race/culture 'eradication' & see it as an existential threat hence all the 'resistance' to peace.

Th naïveté here is the expectation that they can stop the tide coming in. They might be able to slow it down somewhat but the idea that race mixing & by extension cultural progression can be stopped is ludicrous not only because its impossible given the worlds overwhelming demographics but economic suicide to try.

IE, you are not the naive one, ethno nationalists are..

I know the feeling op

When I was 10 I had this sentiment and thought the adults would eventually come to their senses and just get over themselves.

But they don't! And they haven't!

I remember once hearing a talk given by a diplomat and he said it is a well-recognised problem reaching a negotiated peace in a conflict where one side is much stronger than the other - the reason being,
the weak side won't compromise because it can't afford to
and the strong side won't compromise because it doesn't have to

Because most of the Middle East politically want to annihilate Israel, and religiously extremist Muslims want to kill every Jew in the world. Don’t underestimate the Jew hatred embedded in Islamic culture.

Because most of the Middle East politically want to annihilate Israel, and religiously extremist Muslims want to kill every Jew in the world. Don’t underestimate the Jew hatred embedded in Islamic culture.

Nope

Yep

The last Israeli PM to achieve a peace deal with a Palestinian leader was assassinated by an Israeli extremist. Maybe Israel and Palestine would still be at peace if that hadn’t happened.

Because they want the exact opposite things & are both completely unwilling to compromise.

The Israelis want a particular piece of land, based on a religious definition, that happens to include bits belonging to other countries eg Lebanon. They want it all to themselves because they are terrified that their people will be eradicated, by cultural admixture if not through genocide. The government is dominated by those with extreme views.

The Palestinians want the land back that they had before the creation of the modern state of Israel and for it not to have any Jews in it. They and most of the predominantly Muslim states around them hate/resent Israelis/Jews because of a) religion and b) zionism.

How on earth can the two be reconciled when wanting that patch of land without the other group in it, is so central to what they want? They are never going to agree to share.

I can’t see how they can ever exist in peace as:
a) they fundamentally disagree over who owns the land
b) Israel keep annexing more of the land held by Palestinians

It will never stop.

Fantastically one-sided interpretation of the situation…!

The Israelis have done nothing wrong at all then, I take it?

Because if the Palestinians were given equal rights to Israelis, then there would not be a Jewish majority in Israel/occupied West Bank. This is apparently unconscionable as the point of Israel is to be a jewish state.

Because religion controls people through fear and division.

Exactly. Nothing more.

Men in charge.
Centuries of hurt.
Intolerant ,archaic, male dominated religion.

In short: Palestinians don’t want to give up their land; Jews don’t want to live as a minority in their own state. Not many options from there.

You do realise that Palestinians are displaced Jordanians. Palestine is relatively new. Also it has never been fine there. When I was a child in the 70s they were killing eachother. Everyone knows hamas are terrorists so until they go they’ll always be unrest

That is so insightful, thank you. Do you recall who said it?

And it resonates with the rationale I’ve heard in the media as why Israel supported the trump plan in recent days when they had rejected same plan by Biden a year ago - that Israel is now so diplomatically isolated it does have to

Not true at all. Read some history!

Because it is impossible for two solid objects to occupy exactly the same space.
There are obviously complicating factors, but it’s basically just Physics!

Palestinians didn't exist until Yasser Arafat came along.

Prior to that they saw themselves as either Arabs or Syrians.

In actual fact, the deliberate creation of the “Palestinian people” as a discrete entity in 1967, and the political group known as the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) in 1964 was for the political purpose of destroying a sovereign and legally mandated Jewish state.
The whole concept of a “Palestinian people” was a political strategy invented not to build a state but to destroy a neighbouring one.

So, the term 'Palestinian' did not take on its current popular meaning until the mid-20th century and was used as a regional reference.

Till 1967, nobody had ever heard of the “Palestinians” as a people, let alone a “people” steeped in antiquity. Its subsequent use is merely a political tool to delegitimise the Jewish claim to what was left of the division of the British Mandate into two projected Arab Muslim entities and one Jewish one.

Have a look at the Palestinian flag - it is the flag of Jordan with the star removed.

The key point surely is that Palestinians (who have always been Arabs, I’m not sure why you think being Palestinians something other to that???) have always lived their not what we or anyone else calls their country. You might just as well say emirates aren’t really from the uae because it’s just a group of regions gathered under a new name. It’s rather like your saying the native Americans aren’t really important to the USA because they “don’t really exist”. Behave

Well yes, but conversely Hamas has been open about intending whenever possible to repeat the October 7th attacks, including the murder of children, rape of women, and taking of hostages as many times as they can. Gaza has been in receipt of huge amounts of financial aid over the last several decades, at some points much of it from Israel. The leadership used it to build a network of tunnels to make it easier for them to continue attacking Israel. Israeli and (much of) Palestinian culture are also seriously in conflict. Men caught having gay sex are still thrown off roofs in Palestine. Women and girls have fewer rights. Israel has unquestionably deepened many divisions in the last two years, and the government’s indulgence (or encouragement) of settlers encroaching on Palestinian land was appalling for decades prior. But let’s not pretend that this is a one-sided problem and the Palestinians are all decent people with a compatible culture who just wanted to get along and be fairly treated until Israel attacked them, because it’s demonstrably not true.