National Trust & tampons

[oncemoreuntothebeachdearfriends]

NT have made free tampons available in the gents' toilets in a castle in the Lake District. Not unisex toilets, but actual gents.

Not just any tampons, but vegan tampons (WTF are they?).
And they're also available in the ladies.

YABU They are demonstrating what a kind, caring organisation they are, & covering their arses.

YANBU They are bonkers, tossers... add your own words.

God almighty, who cares? If it helps one person then what exactly is the issue? Take a day off.

Some "transgender men" (i.e. women, who have periods) will be using the gents'. I don't agree with it either, but it's disingenuous to pretend you don't understand it.

The toilets thing is a bit of a red herring anyway, re the whole transgender debate. I mean, nobody ever checks anyone's sex before they're allowed entry to a public loo. It's not like being put on a hospital ward or in a prison on anything else single-sex, where someone's checking. And sexual assaults in public toilets don't seem to be a thing.

They're not hemorrhaging members: https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/services/media/surge-in-18-25-year-old-members

"Overall, visitors to pay-for-entry places in the National Trust’s care grew by 2% year-on-year compared with the previous financial year. Membership held relatively stable at 5.35 million (compared with 5.38 million in 2023-24) whereas paying visitor figures increased by 5%, continuing a trend seen last year, where cost pressures meant that visitors were more likely to ‘pay on the day’. More details on the charity’s 2024-25 financial year can be found in the National Trust’s Annual Report."

Have you been in a gents' toilet? I can't imagine a more gross place to be fiddling around changing a tampon.

Bet you anything your hypothetical trans man (assuming s/he still has periods and doesn't use a less internal method) grabs a tampon and legs it to the disabled loo to use it.

This is a serious point under the sarcasm - stuff like this is all performance. No one is really imaging what a trans man caught short might actually need or do. They got as far as "oooo we can't have sex specific stuff in our sex specific toilets" and no further.

If you think that men are fine with female people in their spaces you are wrong, and completely dismissive of the privacy and dignity of men, and also pretty dismissive that if men discover someone female in their space she is in danger.

For those reasons, this is all kinds of wrong and if those toilets are labelled GENTS (or equivalent) then it is unlawful for anyone female to be in that space. As well as UNSAFE.

I don’t understand.
This female born person has been using the male loos for decades. He is now by law required to use to females (as many, many posters on this thread are saying). That’s a huge change.
I understand and support the protection of female-safe spaces and sports.

I can't imagine there's much call for tampons since the majority of people in National Trust places are well past menopause.

Their failure to uphold their members vote on banning trail hunting on their land is my main issue

You’re a bit behind the times. NT has hugely broadened their demographic in the last couple of decades. Much more focus on families and child-friendly activities now.

Maybe there's a long queue for the ladies loo and the gents is empty?

This has been done to death. The ruling is that people must use the facility of the sex they were born as

although this will result in 5’10” muscly, broad, hairy, bearded, bald people with penises wearing men’s clothing using women’s toilets on occasion.

which will cause all the triggers and outrage women want to avoid.

what to do what to do

At the end of the day, any female bodied person in a male toilet is of very little consequence to the males in there. They pose a negligible threat.

The big issue is male bodied people using single-sex provision for women. This takes away dignity, privacy and yes, makes things a lot less safe for girls and women.

If the tampons in the gents is a signal that the NT have a liberal stance to whoever wants to use the ladies loos, that’s not only unlawful, it’s just morally wrong.

And a bit saddening really…You’d have thought all that history would've taught them something about outcomes for women when men are given free reign to do what they like over people with less power.

It is asking you to do nothing. It's one tampon dispenser in one toilets that will probably never get used. It's not a recruitment drive.

This female born person should never ever have been using men’s single sex spaces in accordance with Building regs 1992 and the Equality Act of 2010
Nothing changed

Single sex means single sex
Sex is biological fact ie our biology at birth

Nothing has changed other than those who ignored the safety and dignity of others no longer can

Most places have mixed use toilets aswell

Indeed, I heard a report that said membership of the 20s (I think, but certainly pre-menopause) was growing more rapidly than any other age group.

I made it to the second post.

The negative impact is the cost of providing tampons which will more often than not be left unused. All products that may be inserted into a human body have a sell by date. So these will need to be binned and replaced. Then there is the time of the staff member who has to check the sell by date and document that this has been done so that the National Trust isn't sued.

The other option would be that a woman (who chooses to present as male) who is suddenly in need of a tampon go into the women's toilets where they are available.

Hard to see what makes more sense.

There seem to be a lot of people on this thread who are not aware of the supreme court ruling.

In April this year it was clarified that "sex" as written into the equality act referred to biological sex and not gender identity or presentation. And thus when it came to sex segregated spaces (anywhere labelled with "men" and "women") it was and always had been the law that they be used by those of that sex. Therefore by law trans people - the same as everyone else - must use the toilets of their birth sex and not their assumed gender identity.

Thus there should be no transmen (women who identify as men) in the gents. Men have the right, in law, to single sex spaces and a transman is breaking the law by entering that space.

By putting tampons in the men's toilets, the national trust are signalling that they are happy for their visitors to break the law (at least in this specific case, I imagine they would take a rather different view if you nicked an over priced scone).

Where they are happy for women to break the law by entering the men's toilets, we can assume they are equally happy for men to break the law by entering the women's toilets (any other stance would be discriminatory, and they are presumably citing inclusion as their reason to place tampons in the men's).

Women who are bothered by the tampons in the toilets are bothered because women have fought long and hard and at great expense to retain their right to single sex spaces and make sure everyone and everywhere knew what that actual law was and followed it. The National Trust are demonstrating that they either do not know the law or do not care if people break it - in fact they are actively encouraging them to do so.

They therefore do not care about any women/ girls who may be impacted, harmed or face indirect discrimination as a result of the removal of their lawful single sex space.

It isn't the tampons that are the problem, it is what the tampons tell us about the National Trust's mindset and attitude to both the law and women's rights.

Sexual assaults in toilets are unusual but when they do happen it is overwhelmingly in a mixed sex space.

A taller woman might be able to deceive men into thinking she’s a man but a lot won’t. And we shouldn’t be encouraging women to use male spaces, for their own safety and for the privacy and dignity of both men and women.

This sends a clear signal to men that there might be women in their spaces.

But it’s also unlawful.

Just Googled it and the sources are the Telegraph, the Mail and Toby Young, make of that what you will.

Nonsense.

Maybe its a generation thing. The younger generations really aren't upset by it. Lots of places are moving to gender neutral toilet type stalls now and I expect this will become less of a thing as time goes on. I think you are also overestimating the threat men pose. I have used mens toilets in my youth (clubs etc.) and the men were always very nice about it.

Nope they are full of family with toddlers and young primary age DC, teenagers are rare.

Brilliant that a trans man will have access to sanitary protection if they’re caught short.

The recent Supreme Court ruling means that trans identifying women should be in the women's toilets.

Yet here you are, reading a thread title, clicking on it and posting a reply

Oh the irony 😂

although this will result in 5’10” muscly, broad, hairy, bearded, bald people with penises wearing men’s clothing using women’s toilets on occasion.

If that person was born female, I promise you they don't have a penis.