Is not giving a child any presents for their birthday a as punishment fair?

[ambergot]

I met a mum friend for a play date in the park after school last night and her dd was quite mean to my son, calling him fat which he is not, stupid and and idiot and swearing at him.
I ended up taking him home and this mum was hugely apologetic.
I was talking to the mum in the school playground this morning and she explained her daughter has been quite challenging lately, she’s in the process of having her assessed for ADHD and odd and as a consequence for the way she was with my son and the fact she refused to apologise she has said she won’t be getting any birthday presents next week.
I thought this was a bit harsh but didn’t want to get involved.
It’s not a punishment I would implement but then I don’t have a child with adhd and odd so I don’t know if she’s being unfair or does that sound reasonable in those circumstances?

If a child has never experienced a behaviour they cannot replicate it.

Yes a child with ADHD is more likely to act on impulse but behaviours still have to be learned to be copied and replicated.

(Parent of child with Autism/ADHD)

awful for any child. Awful and ineffective for a child with adhd.

Any child in school is highly likely to hear such things in the playground. It doesn't necessarily come from home.

Especially not a week out. If they do have adhd they won’t be able to link the consequences with the behaviours a week after the event. Cruel. Mum (and dad if on the scene) needs to learn how to discipline adhd children in a way that links to the behaviours and is exacted immediately or it will not benefit anyone and could well exacerbate those behaviours instead of tempering them. I doubt such an approach would be understandable to even NT children, a week is a very long time in the life of a 6 year old.

Nonsense. Parent of 6 Adhd/Asd/AuDhd children.

Won’t even work because children with ADHD don’t respond to punishment

@GarlicBreadStan

“I have a son who is awaiting an autism diagnosis, and I also strongly believe he has ODD and PDA profiles alongside autism.”

surely he’s waiting for an autism assessment, not a diagnosis.

I'd never bitten my DS when he bit me. Nor had any adult hit him or thrown anything at him when he was 3 and started doing this. I can't completely promise that no child at nursery had done those but we had no report of other children throwing chairs.
Luckily we now have better methods for managing his behaviour than removing things that are days or weeks away.

Oh no, I used the wrong word 🥺

I do think the urge to lash out physically has to be instinctive on some level.

I can see the point that children don't learn that comments about weight are upsetting unless they have heard someone else use them in a derogatory way.

Either way though I don't think it is helpful or accurate to assume it comes from home unless you know a parent has that attitude themselves. You can't insulate a child from the world and they will hear things that adults would prefer them not to repeat.

It is strange how it is assumed this way though. I remember being sat in a meeting and asked whether my then 6yo was very close to his 16yo brother, I said not really, why, and it turned out he was repeating offensive language (around the level of "dickhead") in the local language, which I speak, but not at home and my husband doesn't speak at all. As it happens I didn't even know the words referred to because I mainly speak this language in the context of things like meetings, or socially at childcare/education pick up or at toddler groups, and people don't usually swear in those contexts.

DH noticed the next day when he dropped him off that he was getting the language from other children his age who were aware that these words were taboo and would stop saying them when they thought adults were listening. DS, whether due to his ND or his lack of language exposure, didn't have that instinctive "taboo" around them so didn't filter them and would therefore get into trouble. I had to explain to other parents that if they heard him saying something offensive, please tell me, because I wouldn't necessarily pick up on it otherwise.

I tend to feel that the urge to lash out is instinctive (but stronger in some than others). Most toddlers do it, most adults don't, therefore some toddlers will do it even if they have literally never seen anyone do it.

Having said that, though DS was a dab hand at throwing things/biting/hitting and kicking before he started school he never punched anyone till he started Reception and I maintain he learned that from other children in his class. Also, he never swore until he moved to the PRU, and a single telling off escalated that at home but then repeated ignoring stopped it within weeks.

Adults have generally learnt many more coping strategies to deal with feeling threatened which is why they don't tend to lash out.

IME behaviour can come from things they have seen/experienced because humans are social like that and learn from each other. But it can also be experimental/instinctive - Pica for example where autistic children try to eat non-food items can be related to an iron deficiency, it is unlikely to be something they have observed.

Most children probably observe bad behaviour from other children at school/in playgrounds/etc but not all of them copy it. I think children copy things to try them out, or because it seems like it is an effective strategy if they don't have effective strategies of their own. For example children with good language earlier on seem less likely to be physically aggressive - they don't need to use those strategies because they can get what they want through verbal communication.

Therefore most of the time, even if behaviour is copied or experimental, if it persists where a different behaviour is preferred, it's usually (IME/O) because they don't have sufficient development and grasp of the preferred behaviour and usually need more support with this regardless of where the unwanted behaviour has come from.

Of course if an adult is modelling the behaviour at home it makes it seem acceptable so will be more difficult to correct.

Of course it isn’t fair it is abuse. This combined with the other information you have shared. Please genuinely report this. That child deserves better than how they are being treated.