To Discuss How Not To Be A Bullying Victim

[ClockedIt]

There was another thread on a similar but not same subject this week that that mentions that this would be a good subject to explore but, to use a well worn phrase ‘would be the subject of a different thread’.

That thread had some really interesting posts about group dynamics.

I had a discussion a while ago about this with someone who had been badly bullied - didn’t fit in in school, college or work. We became friendly and had a lot of deep personal chats. I said to him “who is most likely to become a victim of bullying - is it someone with no friends?”

He said “no - not exactly someone with no friends - it’s someone who is unsure”

Even though he was bullied, he had a good perception of people and people’s motivations.

Someone else I spoke to said that people pick on differences between people but if a person with differences has a strong personality that deters bullies.

Any thoughts?

Bullies pick victims who they can scare, who will be too timid to fight back. They want to issue the "we'll get you after school" threat and have the kid bricking it all day long. Makes them feel good.

From a young age we have to teach DC to fight fire with fire. Don't accept that crap and be willing to use violence if they have to. The bullies just knowing that's the case changes things.

I hate all the "kind hands, tell the teacher" stuff. Doesn't work.

Bullies sense weakness, someone who's shy or timid is an easy target, they're less likely to fight back.
Also bullying can be insidious, it starts with small things that seem harmless then escalates, because nothing has been done about the small things someone is already a victim and the bully/bullies feel comfortable to continue.
I don't know what the answer to stopping bullying is, you can teach children to fight back but some will never do that because they lack the confidence and fear making things worse which brings us back to bullies sensing weakness!

Self defence classes. Start them young and by the time they get to secondary, they'll be fine.

Gosh there was so much of the “I’ll get you after school” thing when I was at school.

I’ve had mixed experiences with school. I punched a girl in the face when I was 13 because she interfered in an argument with me and my friend. To be honest - I was being unreasonable and an arse to my friend and I feel I shouldn’t have punched her cos realistically the girl who intervened wasn’t bullying me so I regret it. But she was scared of me then.

At 16 I told another ‘hard girl’ to Fuck Off and she proceeded to hand my arse to me on a plate to teach me a lesson. She had superior social leverage to me and knew I was unpopular so literally rallied up a gang around me to intimidate me in response - she wasn’t prepared to accept being told to fuck off by someone socially inferior. But the thing is, between the ages of 13 and 16 I’d gone from slightly unpopular in school to a complete social pariah in school. Maybe this explains the different attitude to me ‘pushing back’.

But I think that who you hang out with matters. When I was bullied I hung out with a ‘rough’’ girl but who was also unpopular and had low social status in the school - surprising combination I know. Then I hung out with a girl who wasn’t popular but also not ‘rough’ at all and was dignified and even though she was slightly unpopular she wasn’t ‘low social status’ either.. When I went round with her, apart from one very small incident the bullying diminished to nothing. I think who you hang out with matters as it influences who has access to you.

DD1 - intelligent, quirky, pretty girl who loves drama and reading, always tries her best, tries to do the right thing, always reflects and looks at both sides.

DD2 - boy climbed onto a rope ladder she was using, cocked an eye at her, starts deliberately shaking it. DD2 calmly braces herself, climbs up past him... and very carefully steps on his face as she does so.
First week of reception, class naughty boy laughs at DD2. According to teacher, DD2 gets up out of her seat straight and without a word, punches him in the face. Hard.
DD2 gets on a swing. Boy wants to use it so he stands in front of her. Silently, DD2 clenches her fist and looks right at him. He moves.

...
Guess which one of those children has never been bullied?

He said “no - not exactly someone with no friends - it’s someone who is unsure”

Oh this is so perceptive. He's right, it's not about being different - it's about being insecure about your differences. That's what psychological bullies pick on - the feeling that you're the weird one and there's something wrong with you.

I didn't fit in at school - mixed-race in a rural environment, nerdy and speccy and not very socially adept. I wasn't ever bullied. I think some of the kids did try to pick on me but I didn't really pay them much attention, nor did I want them to like me, because from the age of 12 all I was thinking about was my life after school. It was easy to brush off because I was always confident that I was only weird in a good way, and it'd pay off down the line. (I was right!)

That's just psychological bullying though. Physical bullying is unfortunately more straightforward and there's not much you can do when someone who's bigger and stronger decides they're going to use that against you.

Do some martial arts. Fight back. If it's verbal bullying punch them still. My DS punched a bully 11 years ago (in year 9) after months of constant mocking. Bully was left sobbing and with a black eye. DS was victorious.

My personality type has definitely been a protective factor against bullying. My interests aren't popular and I don't socialise in huge groups. The difference I noticed at school was other children who were like me in that sense were bullied. I am self assured and fearless; those other children were not. This is picked up as a weakness and bullies are happy to exploit it. This isn't me victim blaming BTW but research does suggest certain traits make individuals less likely to be targeted.

Yes there are times it’s not good to swear the small stuff

DD2 definitely

thsnk you . This is a very useful post.

Agree, dd1 sadly has been captured by the 'be kind' shite.

Oh no!

This is excellent/ such an encouraging post!

DH and I regularly talk about this as two people who were picked on in school.

My parents taught me to ignore and tell teacher and don't stoop to their level, which meant I didn't do anything when bullied. I also didn't have a very happy home life so I walked around school like a victim and not confident. My parents also said that if I got into a fight, I might be suspended which will stay on record for uni and job prospects, so I felt like I couldn't do anything.

DH said he got picked on a few times and all he had to do was grab this boy by the collar and push him up against the wall and punch him once. That boy, and his friends, left DH alone and no one else touched him or said anything to him and he went along school in peace. DH said you just need to show them once that you're not an easy target, and they move on.

With DC now I'm trying to teach them exactly this. They don't have to win the fight, or the argument, just don't take it lying down. Stand up for yourself.

I'm noticing how unhelpful the advice about how to respond to schoolyard bullying is to my experience of workplace bullying.
As emotionally satisfying as it is to imagine smacking a bullying work colleague I'd rightly be up for assault. Also unemployed and possibly unemployable.
Are there people who learned non-violent responses to bullying in school who were then able to apply that in the workplace?
Or does physically defending yourself in childhood translate to confidence and gravitas that prevents bullying in adulthood?

When DS was at school I asked if he was bullied and with the wisdom of a 14 year old he said ‘I’m not the sort that gets bullied’. He had a solid group of friends, wasn’t quite top of the class, played sports and was in a band. If only we could teach it or bottle it!

I could in many ways have written this post! Even though I don’t have a DH, me and my close friend were both bullied and so we talk about this regularly.

i also had an unhappy home life. When I mentioned to my dad I had to stand up for myself every day in school all he said was “your hanging round with the wrong crowd then!” No attempt to help me at all !! That could’ve been his opportunity to help me greatly and he completely messed it up !

The psychology of workplace bullying is often poorly understood.

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Bully_in_Sight.html?id=9T9mn72jffkC&redir_esc=y

I think it also depends on the environment...I was bullied a lot in primary school, and then a bit in the first few years of secondary school.
Then when they switched us all around for GCSEs and I found more kids 'like me' it stopped.

I was clever, quiet, and a bit socially awkward.

Steely resolve, not giving a shit what other people think and not trying to be part of the crowd, being an independent thinker has worked for me. The best armour is high self-esteem. Bullies are attracted to those who come across as needy. If you blank them and show you don't have the energy for them they go elsewhere.

I think your OP is about childhood and teen years? (Workplace stuff is a different kettle of fish IMO!)

Agree that your friend’s comment rings true that it’s a risk to be and seem lacking in confidence and ‘unsure’.

Along with lots of other stuff, eg differences, traits, home situation. I was a ‘know it all’ kind of kid, bossy, worked hard - some kids didn’t like that. Had moved areas so had to try to fit in, had a different accent. Also some difficulties at home meant I wouldn’t speak to anyone about things at school.

At times I also behaved in bullying ways, or was a bystander. Think it stemmed from the stuff going on at home and struggles with the social dynamics at school.

Bullies sense weakness

This, so do abusive men, muggers etc. It's how you carry yourself etc.

Fighting back isn't always the answer, more important how to learn who to stand up or to or back down & how to avoid standing out.

I was never bullied in school but I was in my first job when I was 17. It was by a woman old enough to be my mother, she was horrible to me, constantly criticised my work, appearance, life choices. She eroded my confidence and I was genuinely scared of her.

I’d like to say that I put her in her place but that never happened, I just escaped from the job and was a thousand times happier but I was determined never to let it happen again and in future jobs when anyone tried it, I either nipped it in the bud or looked for something else because I wasn’t going through that again.

It is probably all about confidence and self esteem - the kids with both were never bothered. It makes sense to try to ensure your child is confident and sure in themselves but it's not like an app you can install, you can do your best as a parent but find that because of other factors, your child can still be the target to those who sense someone weaker.