to want the anti-vaxxers to explain themselves?

[Goldfsh]

My Facebook feed is full of GP practices etc. promoting the flu jab, and EVERY response is from people saying they are full of poison, giving everyone flu, part of a government conspiracy, Bill Gates, big pharma, etc.

It doesn't matter where the GP surgery is in the country, the responses are all the same.

Just... WOT IS GOING ON????

It's literally 100% of the respondents. Please can someone explain to me why the general public (on my feeds anyway) have become convinced that the flu jab is part of a conspiracy... to what end?!

I think the term anti vaxxer is used to describe those who are against all vaccinations, not those who select which to have. I would say you are a vaxxer!

I believe the antivaxers I know did have chemo with cancer (only two). Botox though? Poor example. Surely only a minority of people, pro or anti vax, get that? I don't think I've been privy to antivaxers facing the question of travel jabs. If I had to guess, I'd day they probably didn't.

You don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. For example, no drugs for me in childbirth, I'll have them at home without internal exams or intervention, but if something happens where there is a legitimate medical reason to have a c-section, bring it on.

So true.
I know one who is very vocally anti vax and who scoffs at us vaccinated "sheep" but who has had two breast enlargement procedures, regular botox, lip and cheek fillers, chemical face peels and who drinks, smokes and vapes heavily. Apparently, she won't allow that toxic vaccine crap in her body. She did also think that the covid jab contained computer chips though so 🤷‍♀️

Most people determine what they think is true or false in really unreliable, irrational ways. If you ask someone about anything, religion, politics, health, diet etc, their reasoning almost never makes sense.

Take a classic mistake in reasoning 'my grandma smoked and lived until 90 so I'm gonna smoke too.' So the person smokes, maybe dies a decade or two early, which is sad, but the effect of that bad reasoning doesn't have a significant impact on society as a whole.

During the pandemic though suddenly you need everyone to think rationally in order to protect society as a whole, in order for the system to work.

I have a few anti-vaxxer friends and I'd talk to them sometimes during the days of the pandemic (as in an actual discussion, not a fight, I know that wouldn't help). I tried to explain how to reliably determine when something is (likely) true vs false, but none of them ever managed to change their thinking. Even a rational anti-vax argument seemed to be beyond them. For example you could say something like 'I'll take the vaccine, but not yet because it's not gone through the proper testing' and okay, I disagree, but fair enough, that's rational. Instead I'd get theories about population control, immigration (somehow), microscopic tentacle monsters in the vaccine (yes, seriously) and so on.

As I say, they're my friends, so overall I consider them good, kind people, but I'm kind of convinced nowadays that some people just don't have the mental ability to reason properly and idk really what we should do about that because there are going to be occasions again where that's going to hurt others.

That makes sense! Thanks x

I skipped my last Covid vaccine because of everything I was seeing/reading
booked for it this year along with the flu vaccine

It was perfectly clear that she was referring to the posters who were calling people stupid idiots.

I am partially deaf due to measles as a child. I did have the vaccine though. Didn't stop people calling my parents anti vacxerscand telling them it was their fault I had eases so badly

What I don’t understand is that they clearly have a huge mistrust in doctors/NHS/pharmaceutical companies etc… but presumably if they got hit by a car or cancer or had a stroke they’d attend hospital? If their child had meningitis they’d attend hospital etc etc. So if they think the medical community is harming them intentionally or that they believe they know better than doctors, why would they accept treatment when shit hits the fan?

I was an NHS hospital doctor and the most I ever got from a pharmaceutical company was a free M&S sandwich whilst crowded in a tiny staff room on my lunch break in exchange for listening to their boring presentation.

So nobody can give a definitive answer to the clinical meaning of "effective " in this case?

Oh, just ignore, there's no logic. It's partly being taken in my online nonsense eg TikTok etc, partly lack of critical thinking.

Are you saying I’m lying about getting cancer?

I hadn’t had a period for several years as I was on the mini pill. Within a couple of days of receiving the Covid vaccine I haemorrhaged for two days, of course the haemorrhaging was due to the vaccine. I’m not against vaccines and I get the ‘flu vaccine every winter but I believe the Covid vaccine is utter poison.

Population starting to question goverment / big pharma due to the poor handling of covid

Same. It's like flat earthers. Any explanation they give will just be a load of complete bollocks. Let them catch the flu IMO.

I don’t really believe in the flu jab. Every time I have gotten it I have been ill. When I don’t get it. I usually dont get flu. Maybe one in 5 years I get it.

So maybe if your immune comprised it makes sense. But for ordinary adult me; there’s a 20% risk of being ill vs a 100% certainty of being ill. Makes no sense.

I once met a helicopter pilot who was a flat earther. Initially thought he was having a laugh but no, totally serious. Total fruit loop.

I don’t trust the government and the shit they come out with. Covid was apparently deadly etc etc and we all had to stay home… but they didn’t? Why would I believe what they say and get stressed about having another booster of god knows what?!

It didn’t pass me by at all. It was completely intentional, as was your equally as rude response to it.

Another one here who experienced months of truly horrendous bleeding meaning I’d have to change my clithes 3-4 times per day several days out of the month as a super tampon plus extra thick pad wouldn’t even stem to regular sudden gushing - theres lots of us out there.

I’m in the health care field and had an elderly man (84) tell me last week he wasn’t getting his Covid jab because it gave King Charles prostate cancer!

I tried to gently explain that prostate cancer had been around way longer than the Covid vaccine and Charles was a prime age for getting it. But he couldn’t see past the fact that Charles “was fine” before the vaccine.

I’ve had extremely vulnerable older people with significant immunosuppression telling me they are not taking any more vaccines because their son/daughter doesn’t want them too. The same people who if they ended up in hospital with a severe pneumonia, would let doctors pump them full of anything to save their life!

I thought it was, but apparently not!

I just think that if you’re trying to make a particular group of people see how sensible it is to have vaccines, or vote a particular way in a national referendum, or refuse to support Reform, then making them feel small and stupid is not the best way to go about it. All it achieves is making them double down and historically that hasn’t improved much.

Which is why the Covid vaccine is now only being offered to the extremely vulnerable - age 75+, care home residents and severely immunosuppressed. Our bodies have adapted to the virus with the help of the vaccine so younger, healthy people don’t need it any more.

And two family members of mine had the flu vaccine and still got the flu this year

But no vaccine stops you contracting a virus - that’s not the point. It decreases the chance of you becoming extremely ill with it. Some people will have naturally stronger immune systems than others but there’s no way of knowing that so we vaccinate at population level.

I wish people would stop confusing anecdata with peer reviewed science.