To feel like the tide of public opinion has turned against the pro-palestine protestors

[JKLolling]

Every social media feed I have is full of irate people commenting on pro-gaza protestors.

From people commenting on Greta Thunberg sharing the picture of the starving hostage and claiming it was a Palestinian (wtf was she thinking?!) , to the student saying Israelis should 'go back where they came from', there are thousands of angry comments. Lots of the protestors hiding their faces too, and on a local Uni group people are trying to name the protestors seen today and get them removed from their courses

I'm disgusted with what I've seen today, and it feels like the tide is turning and people are seeing these protests for what they really are: an opportunity for hate-filled morons to get together and intimidate people. I feel like they've completely ruined their cause just because they couldn't wait a day to protest.

I’m glad that you have criticised the actions of protestors who marched on October 7th and who express extreme views. Far, far more of this is needed.

There is far too much of a tendency to see marchers as ‘us’ therefore ‘goodies’ and attempts to minimise, ignore or justify the abhorrent actions of the ones calling for death, supporting Hamas, or provocatively marching on October 7th.

I would love to see decent marchers stop marching alongside the extremists. I would love to see them call it out at marches if they see it. I would love for them to put pressure on the organisers to properly police and weed-out the ones who are bringing the whole thing into disrepute.

Unfortunately after two years we have seen very little of this and I consider the ‘decent’ marchers as enabling and condoning the others by marching with them.

Don’t be silly.

I know that public shaming and purity spiral policing is popular on the left but calling names isn’t actually an argument.

You seem to have failed to realise that the topic of the thread is the people marching, not Israel.

It is entirely reasonably to have concerns about people calling for death and shouting support for terrorists on the streets of our own country.

Or do you think that calls for death and supporting terrorists is a good thing?

You’d also think the people going nuts shouting Genocide! (some of them go puce, spitting fury from videos I’ve seen), would be absolutely outraged that Hamas has publicly admitted multiple times that they NEED Palestinians to die for their cause.

I mean how dehumanising is that?

You’d have thought those who shout about the suffering of Palestinians would be vehemently against that and protesting against it.

But crickets…………….

Surely one thing we can agree on is that Netanyahu and Hamas were equally thirsty for this war and to keep it going. For reasons that were nothing to do with the wellbeing of their people. We will get nowhere if we can't acknowledge this.

Oh, they don't care about those people.

Who knows, maybe they will care next week? When Palestine is no longer the cause of the day?

I am going to crack the fuck up if Trump is the one who actually pulls of the ceasefire. What are you fuckwits going to do then? Scream for more death and destruction because it is "Trump's Ceasefire"?

Who wants to take bets?

Nope. Don’t agree.

Netanyahu’s background has made him the exact PM Israel needed in this crisis. His aim is to protect Israel and stabilise the region from the constant terrorist threats which there’s not much to argue against.

He was in favour of a one state solution when he was younger, before his brother was killed in a Palestinian plane hijacking rescue mission IIRC.

I don’t believe it makes any sense to say the corruption charges against him has made him decide to continue this war to try to evade them, instead making him an alleged war criminal and the most hated man on the planet. He’s certainly not stupid and a few years in an Israeli jail, IF those charges were proven would be infinitely preferable to dying in The Hague. He’s also at massive risk of assassination when he would be quite comfy in a protected prison in Israel, then welcomed back into the political echelon as other disgraced ministers are as a commentator or to write his memoirs as the longest serving Israeli PM.

Hamas leaders on the other hand are dedicated to their religious calling to annihilate Israel and kill Jews, at the cost of, and actively wanting, their own people to be killed to achieve that.

Absolutely no comparison.

Most people acknowledge that what’s happening in Gaza is atrocious. Most Jews and Israelis mourn for the loss of life on both sides.

But there are SO many pro Palestinian activists who literally ignore what happened on 07/10 - or most concerning, justify it. They are not protesting against Benjamin Netanyahu AND Hamas. They are blaming “Israel”.

The tense politics have been going on for decades, but this specific war was instigated on 07/10. To ignore that is highly hypocritical, ignorant and some could argue, antisemitic.

Yes they are called martyrs and have lots of virgins to look forward to apparently.

I’m not sure what it looks like for women and children, but Hamas see them as disposable either way.

Surely most people are just against killing innocent people. So both horrified by the mass killings Hamas committed and by the ongoing genocide in Palestine. With that in mind, I am not against the pro-palestine protestors as they are mostly just trying to raise awareness and demand action to stop a genocide, which is something I want to stop too.

Can the Netanyau fans hear themselves?

I hope all those posters who constantly talk about how nobody supports the war criminal Netanyahu on mumsnet are reading this.

But the elephant in the room to that argument is he didn't protect Israel. He supported Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO. And made rash and arrogant decisions (along with other leaders) that enabled 7/10 to be as devastating as it was despite clear warnings. And he knows he won't die in the Hague - he has far too many friends in high places.

These people aren't educated and have no intention on educating themselves either. They just go around blind to the facts because they have a narrative in their heads and cant bare to be proved wrong. That's what makes them so dangerous because they spread lies amongst those equally uneducated. It spreads like mould.

I’ve noticed a lot of people calling out others for ‘staying silent’ (not just famous/influential people) and implying that people who don’t share random pro-Palestine posters to their Twitter feed or Instagram stories are complicit in genocide.

It’s possible to want safety for all and to condemn Hamas, the current actions of the Israeli government and all the anti-Semitic sentiment that has arisen in the wake of the conflict without ‘picking a side’. It’s also possible to do all those things without sharing it to your private Instagram story where it will not be seen by anybody with any decision-making power.

They could, nobledgiraffe, but that wouldn't make them feel part of the zeitgeist or make for such "exciting" images for their SM

The lessening of sympathy's a shame for the genuinely well intentioned protesters, but that's what happens when you ally yourself with those who prefer to foster hate, and it's clearly seen on here that the second group are getting increasingly rattled

I don’t think you realise that it is well beyond the territory of a ceasefire that is being demanded. Israel has well and truly shot itself in the foot with its action in Gaza. they’ve exposed themselves that people are now calling for an end to the apartheid and end to the occupation. Israel is seen as a settlor colonial state that is an occupying force. Due to Gaza an entire new generation has been educated on what has been happening. The fact that you think it’s just about a ceasefire now is naive at best.

Just to be clear, you are demanding the eradication of Israel?

Netanyahu didn’t put Hamas in power in Gaza. The Palestinians in Gaza did. They did not vote for peace as the other half of the electorate voted for Fatah.

Was Israel supposed to go into Gaza and get rid of Hamas in 2007? Can you imagine the international outcry if they had tried to remove the first elected government from Gaza, with all the collateral damage that would have caused, that Palestinians had chosen in their first free and fair elections?

Doesn’t everyone go on about their right to self determination?

There were good reasons to have Hamas as a counterweight to the PA (Fatah/PLO). The PA is hated by Palestinians, Pay for Slay, refused peace deals and to accept Israel, and incited terrorism including in their schools. It also hasn’t got a good track record of controlling terrorism in the West Bank.

www.gov.il/en/pages/wave-of-terror-october-2015

Arafat used to speak out of one side of his mouth pretending to want peace in front of Western leaders and speak out of the other side to Arab leaders and the Palestinians. Much like Abbas. I’m sure Israel knows what he really says, How many years has he been President of the PA now?

I read Netanyahu thought the money from Qatar would keep Hamas fat and lazy so to speak and they would be controllable. Netanyahu also facilitated more work permits for Gazans, who could get a much higher wage in Israel, to bring more money into the Gazan economy to increase living standards.

Being brutally honest Israel’s security depends on there not being a Palestinian State as there is no popular party who wants peace with Israel and there never has been. Netanyahu is not naive enough to believe the opposite.

Palestinians are radicalised to hate Israel and for terrorism from young childhood. Who’s fault is that?

The warnings were ignored but not by Netanyahu. He has maintained he was not informed until the attack was happening.

I have read comments ages ago by some Israelis (translated so may not be entirely accurate) that warnings may have ignored as a way to oust Netanyahu (perhaps linked to the corruption charges as well), and only hostages from the military base were expected to be taken. Netanyahu would have to step down and take the blame for the secularity failures.

I wonder if it’s true and Netanyahu knows this which is why he’s not backing down.

If he has friends in high places who’d stop him from going to The Hague, why would he be bothered about relatively minor local corruption charges? It’s to do with champagne, cigars and good media coverage isn’t it? Not embezzlement of millions of shekels or buying votes.

They can demand, and stamp their feet, all they like.

Not going to happen is it!

What do they think is going to happen. Western armies are going to go to war with Israel and wipe it out?

Iran perhaps?

I think Russia is busy.

So thats a yes?

This is a bit embarrassing for all those people who have spent two years insisting ‘from the river to the sea’ didn’t mean ‘wipe Israel off the map’.

Where are all the Israelis supposed to go? I think most of these marching twerps see Jewish people as the orthodox eg Hasidic Jews and forget we have examples such as Dana International or the Tinder Swindler and of course millions of quite ordinary people going about their business.

I presume the marchers et al will be quite happy to welcome millions of refugees here (not that they would want to come) or perhaps - here’s a thought - they could be found a homeland ? And off we go again.

Netanyahu didn’t put Hamas in power in Gaza. The Palestinians in Gaza did. They did not vote for peace as the other half of the electorate voted for Fatah

They did indeed, @TicklishMauveSquid, and though we get the usual excuses about there being no election since and that many who've died weren't even born then, it doesn't wash - not when a huge % of Palestinians still back Hamas

And then some wonder why no other nations in the region want to take them ...

@chilliheeler123 Well said.

That’s obvious to me. Netanyahu is a war criminal and Hamas are terrorists. Between then 10s of thousands of innocents have died.

This new peace plan needs to work.