To think any "pro-Palestinian" marches today should be stopped?

[Beachtastic]

Today is the second anniversary of the 7 October attacks.

Apparently "Students from London colleges are planning a joint march in the capital, while Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Bristol and Sheffield are among other cities said to be expecting protests."

In my view, the timing of these marches proves beyond doubt that they are antisemitic in nature, and there is no place for them on our streets.

Do you agree, and if so, what would you like to see happen?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1wgx5v90vyo

One question that needs considering, and on the quiet probably has been considered, is if (rightly or wrongly) the Home Secretary bans a march or marches given the current mood:

1.Will the organisers comply?
2.If they don't comply, can police enforce the ban?
3.If they can't enforce it what are the consequences?

Israel would never allow that because of their illegal blockade.

Yes, you are right.

I'm sure a lot of things are being considered "on the quiet" and there is little anyone can do. But I wish Starmer had been more explicit than just "un-British."

I used to wonder why Israel had so many blockades. And then 7 Oct happened and I realised what they were up against.

Well of course Israel doesn’t allow boats of random people to do whatever. My musing was more ‘what if?’

what if all these protesters listening to speeches from women and waving trans flags were magically put down in the middle of Hamas terrorists? What would Greta be met with? Would Hamas be delighted to welcome their supporters? It’s interesting to think about how disjointed the protesters are from the reality of living under Hamas rule.

Your comment sounds really ignorant if I'm honest. Not all females in Gaza wear hijab. And there has been lots of female medical staff from around the globe who are not Muslim, who do not wear hijab and who do not have a 'male guardian' who work in Gaza.

I would normally agree, but why does "freedom of expression" trump the rights of our tiny Jewish community to live in peace here, without constant intimidation?

Because freedom of expression is a fundamental human right and restricting it is the start of a very slippery slope. UK law provides protection from "hate" speech and hate crimes against various categories of people, including religion-based hate.

I think the balance is about right.

Well then the issue is the definition of when this becomes hate speech. And what they’ll do when it does. The answer to both at the moment is ‘never’ and ‘nothing’ so I remain terrified and my daughter is crying every single day.

"Intifada" is Arabic for struggle or uprising; it's not specific to any group.

Sorry, MN seems not to like archive.ph links.

It's a shame, they're very useful!

It does seem rather specific at the moment!

That’s a ridiculous take. Do you realise Israel is choosing to kill a classroom of children in Palestine every single day? They’re killing children and pregnant women trying to get food at help points- even luring them there to kill them. 7th October was awful, but the years of atrocities committed by Israel are every single day. It’s interesting how people are quick to defend against anti-Semitism, but not against anti-Muslim attacks. Bit racist, no?

7th October was awful, but seems a bit racist to me, TBH 🤷🏻‍♀️

Israel have murdered Palestinian children at a rate of one an hour every day for 23 months - a conservative estimate from Save The Children puts the figure at over 20,000 dead children and over 21,000 left permanently disabled.
But we're supposed to be outraged at someone cutting down ribbons, or protesting genocide?

I don't know why the lives of 60,000 murdered Palestinians are worth 'less' some how that 1,200 murdered Israelis, but that fucked up maths seems to be natural to many on here.

You cannot approach this as a purely mathematical equation.

What do you think cutting down the ribbons represented?

To mirror PPs, do you think some lives "count more" than others?

I'd thought about this myself, notimagain, and would hope protesters would follow police direction - after all aren't we always told they're peaceful, lawabiding people?

If this didn't happen further enforcement measures would be a matter for the Home Secrretary, but it's well seen that ignoring lawbreaking just leads to more, so it might be better to deal with them sooner rather than later, and before this balloons still further

Where does that stop? When the police start infringing on your rights? Or is it only okay when it’s the rights of people you disagree with.

Then what do you approach it as?

Surely you can see that the actions Israel have taken have been completely disproportionate

"Surely you can see" that what happened on 7 October was rather special?

Gazan civilian mobs swarmed through the broken fences to gleefully take part (survivors describe them laughing all the time), and by all accounts took things to a level that Hamas might not originally have planned. The victims were bludgeoned to death, burned alive, mutilated, tortured, and trophies (like scalps and eyes) were taken from their bodies. Women, alive, dying, and dead, were raped while being stabbed, mutilated or shot; one had her breasts sliced off and kicked around in the dust. The perpetrators used the victims' phones to livestream this to friends and family of the victims. The attacks were celebrated joyfully in the streets of Gaza, including a well-known video of Shani Louk's mangled semi-naked corpse being paraded in the streets on the back of a truck, with the crowds rejoicing and spitting on what was left of her.

Anyone who debates the proportionality of Israel's response might want to consider how the UK would retaliate for a similar attack on our own soil.

The war is also complicated by the fact that Hamas do not wear uniforms, making it as hard as possible to differentiate them from civilians, and have spent the past 20 years investing enormous wealth into tunnels from which to destroy Israel, carefully siting its strategic centres under hospitals and schools. They have spent years bombarding Israel with missiles and carrying out as many cross-border terrorist attacks as possible.

Why do you think Israel built the Iron Dome? The reason it took a while for people to recognise the dangers at Nova Festival is that no one batted an eyelid at rocket attacks. Perfectly normal for Israelis. Imagine that at Glastonbury.

Also imagine how things would look different if Hamas had also built an Iron Dome. Or better still, if they had invested all that wealth into improving life for Gazans.

I'd have more patience with the "pro-Palestine" gatherings if they were protesting against Hamas. But they never are. Now, I wonder why that would be...? 🤔

I'm very mindful of the "slippery slope", ThatLadyLady, but with rights come responsibilities and I'd say avoiding the incitement of hatred is one of them ... not that doing this was ever a right in the first place