To think any "pro-Palestinian" marches today should be stopped?

[Beachtastic]

Today is the second anniversary of the 7 October attacks.

Apparently "Students from London colleges are planning a joint march in the capital, while Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Bristol and Sheffield are among other cities said to be expecting protests."

In my view, the timing of these marches proves beyond doubt that they are antisemitic in nature, and there is no place for them on our streets.

Do you agree, and if so, what would you like to see happen?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1wgx5v90vyo

I'm not arguing for people to be allowed to break the law. I am sure if laws are broken, people will be arrested. But currently no-one has broken a law and its perfectly possible for the protests to go ahead and for no laws to be broken, however much we might think it would be better if they didn't.

What do you mean by 'truly' genocidal? Are you implying that attacks on certain groups are somehow more genocidal than others?

It’s almost like the general public isn’t okay with our taxes being used to fund a genocide.

Because it's on a Tuesday and timed to coincide with the anniversary of Hamas's attack...?

We have laws which dictate what is hate speech and what isn't`. If these protests reach the legal definition then measures can be taken. With all due respect, whether you think it's hate speech is neither here nor there.

I am Jewish and an absolute supporter of marches for Palestine, but I don't think marching today is a good look. Let people have their grief - yes, some people do use it performatively to shut down stuff they're not comfortable with and I really hate that.

But I do think empathy goes both ways and you can afford to give people who genuinely want to mark their grief, an important aspect of Jewish practice, today to do that and pick up the plight of Gaza again tomorrow.

Isn't it also the anniversary of the escalation of violence against civilians in Palestine?

And yes as PP, please explain what you mean by "truly genocidal".

Believe it or not, the jury is still out on whether the war in Gaza can be called genocide. Arguably, if that was Israel's intention, they'd have killed more than 4% of the Gazan population over the 2 years since Hamas's attacks and would not now be involved in peace negotiations.

Hamas, however, want to see Israel and its people destroyed. That is the definition of genocide.

No. The government should not be telling people when they protest.

Would I protest today? Absolutely not. But I can see why others might choose to, and that’s their choice. If we want a free and fair democracy we have to allow it.

Why would they choose to do so today?

I don't see any reason why the government can't ban protests for just today. They aren't saying never, just not today. They could even do it for example next month, on 7th November, unless another attack takes place the same day - God forbid.

People are misquoting the ‘not very British’ comment. He didn't meant we can't protest, but that it's out of character to be so wantonly inconsiderate with the timing.

Believe it or not, the jury is still out on whether the war in Gaza can be called genocide

I wish this was true thers isn't a genocide happing in Gaza.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/commission-of-inquiry-report-genocide-in-gaza-a-hrc-60-crp-3/

It is insensitive and disrespectful to hold those protests today imo. But I don't agree that it is a form of hate speech.

Obviously, if antisemitic sentiments are expressed at the protests, or anywhere else, then that is hate speech and it should be dealt with accordingly. But I think we have to be very careful about going down the road of classing lawful political protest as "hate speech". That's a slippery slope.

It might be crass to choose today, of all days, to protest against the actions of the Israeli government in Gaza, but criticising a government isn't hate speech and I think there would be significant dangers if we suddenly decided to redefine "hate speech" to include criticisms of government, whether our own or that of a foreign country.

Personally, I think the pro-Palestinian protesters today are damaging their own cause by playing directly into the hands of those who say that they are motivated by antisemitism. Their argument in favour of justice for the Palestinian people would have been strengthened, in my view, by them taking the high road and standing in solidarity with the Jewish community today. Sadly, that isn't the route that they have chosen and I don't personally think that the Home Secretary should have the power to stop legal protests unless there is a direct threat to public safety.

So, yes, to the second question?

Probably because they think it will have more impact.

It's interesting that now there's more awareness of the racism in these marches, pro marchers are going with 'freedom of speech' as a reason for doing them. Yeah, freedom of speech is important. There's also freedom of thought though. Nobody does marches on a Tuesday normally. I wonder what is so noteworthy about today? Oh yes, the massacre of defenceless Israelis. Absolutely no reason to march today unless it's to highlight that.

Genocide is a monstrous evil, a blight on the world, an obscenity, and there is no bad day to protest against it.
We should be deeply concerned by anyone who suggests otherwise.

We should never stop peaceful protest, however uncomfortable it is.

I don't like that this is used to erode our democratic rights and whip up heated all round.

This also doesn't mean I agree with the October 7th attacks or what Israel is doing in Gaza. One can condemn both in equal measures as both a equally horrific.

Sorry, but the UN is not impartial (e.g. UNRWA scandal).

Oh come on. Israel wants the Palentinian people obliterated in Gaza, what's the difference?

If it requires an official declaration for it to "count" as genocide, there hasn't been one on Hamas (afaik?).

I think that's probably right - they know that they will get publicity for the protests today. However, I think they have miscalculated and by choosing today, they are inadvertently undermining their own cause. They have shot themselves in the foot, effectively.

I think that protesting today is incredibly insensitive. I certainly wouldn't consider doing it.

However, many people of colour were terrified and horrified at the recent far-right Tommy Robinson protests. I didn't seem many calls to ban them.

It's interesting to me that some people's discomfort with protests is seen as more important than others.

Hamas, however, want to see Israel and its people destroyed. That is the definition of genocide.

It's not though. Simply wanting a group of people to be destroyed doesn't constitute a genocide. It is the action of destroying them that is the genocide. Examples of actions might include bombing hospitals and blocking humanitarian aid.

I completely agree, also reinforcing a stereotype of them as ignorant and trying to stir trouble.

The second question was
Are you implying that attacks on certain groups are somehow more genocidal than others?

...which is ridiculous. Of course not.

But Hamas's attack was textbook genocide. Whether Israel is guilty of genocide or not will become clearer over time, but is not currently confirmed.

What kind of impact, and on whom?