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Original poster

To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

896 replies

Horsehow · 06/10/2025 18:20

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

OP posts:
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61
Sevillian · 22/10/2025 20:13

It is a brave trainer who stands up and says actually - stop, this is not for you, you are scraping by

By coincidence, a really excellent nurse (very highly educated/ several awards) working in a central London teaching hospital said the exact same thing to me yesterday - very despondent that the culture is not to stop incompetent students in their tracks; that senior nurses have to be brave to say no, you'll compromise patient safety if we let you go on.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 20:17

That was about student nurses but in fact this same nurse has had to correct a number of F2 errors which could have been seriously problematic.

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 20:20

stuffedpeppers · 22/10/2025 20:06

!Once qualified there are many more competencies that have to be signed off as well as further exams. And every year you have to pass a panel to prove you are working to the required standard. Don't pass you are given time to improve but if can't then lose licence."

_Utter utter rubbish - where do you get your misinformation from. Yes exams, yes ARCPs - but you do not lose your licence if you fail.

Mum/ Purple - you both believe that selection to medical school at 17/18 should guarantee you employment FY1/2, CT1/2, ST3-8 provided you can tick the boxes - there are a number of actual medics on here who fundamentally disagree with this concept.

  • Medicine is not a science it is an art and intelligent people learn how to play the system make the requirements to continue , scrape past the post. The pressure on trainers to pass people is not insignificant and the threats of HR investigations and discrimination whether true or not are common. It is a brave trainer who stands up and says actually - stop, this is not for you, you are scraping by.

That does not make for brilliant doctors who have been challenged, faced adversity and go the extra mile for their patients, challenge theories and do research to push science further.

At 17 i wanted to be a pathologist, at the end of medschool I thought dermatology was my calling and now I am something completely different. Run through training that you ardently advocate for does not allow you to step off the treadmill, reassess, try something different and make adult decisions.
When we had run through training in the mid 2000s, there were many people saying I have run through but really want to do this. They knew if they gave up their run through the chances of getting to where they wanted to be were slim.

Those that did struggled for 2-3 yrs to get where they wanted on a different programme and many failed.
Some are now employed as consultants in the run through speciality they chose aged 23/24 and are disgruntled and not as effective as having the opportunity to try before they bought into a life time career.

I have never been against UKMGs but am able to see a bigger picture of training as a whole and one size does not fit all and run through training disadvantages many. Go to australia for a year you will be behind the FY2s for a job - is that fair. Do research for 2 years - you will be a lower priority than an FY2.

Sometime it would be nice on these threads if you actually took a stepabck and accepted that one size does not fit all, that all PAs and IMGs are bad and IMGS can also be British citizens and have as much right to a job and training in their own country than someone who just went to a British medical school.

Skim read your verbose post.

Unfortunately the sheer number of IMGs applying for UK specialty training has caused UKMG unemployment. This has caused the backlash that will only get worse.

You could describe the 20,802 IMG applications as the straw that broke the camel's back or they killed the goose that laid the golden egg 😂

stuffedpeppers · 22/10/2025 20:21

Thank you for yet another patronising riposte - I do at least bother to read your ill informed diatribe before commenting.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 20:22

These two posters are breathtakingly rude.

stuffedpeppers · 22/10/2025 20:25

Agree - respect they have a different point of view - I just provide an educated, informed different point of view which they seem set on saying is anti UKMG - which I have never been.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 20:28

I don't think any poster taking issue with these two are anti UKMG or pro IMG. They are entirely ridiculous labels.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 20:45

*posters

Before I get jumped on.

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 20:55

mumsneedwine · 22/10/2025 20:02

Consultants are called Mr ? Not Dr.

They really aren't mumsneedwine. Who told you that?

ramonaquimby · 22/10/2025 21:22

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 20:22

These two posters are breathtakingly rude.

You've also been called idiots on one of the how to get into medicine threads.

It's ok to have differing opinions but posters could be a little more respectful instead hurling insults towards those they don't agree with. This isn't a black and white world

stuffedpeppers · 22/10/2025 21:47

Thank you Ramona - exactly my point -this is not clear cut. One size does not fit and all and to try and make everyone fit a mould is detrimental to the resident doctors, medicine and patients.

Sevillian · 23/10/2025 08:10

ramonaquimby · 22/10/2025 21:22

You've also been called idiots on one of the how to get into medicine threads.

It's ok to have differing opinions but posters could be a little more respectful instead hurling insults towards those they don't agree with. This isn't a black and white world

Show quote history

‘Wrong thread 😂. This one was for me fighting the idiots who think UKGrads being unemployed is a good thing. Yes, people really believe that !’

Presumably this post on the 26 thread? After mumsneedwine had misquoted Mark Twain on lies and statistics and also called him Mary rather than Mark.

But it doesn’t seem to have drummed up any support.

Sevillian · 23/10/2025 08:43

mumsneedwine · 19/10/2025 18:19

To quote Mary Twain (as I know a certain someone loves a literary context), 'Statistics, damn lies and statistics'. Facts on the other hand are just that. Facts.

The original post intended for this thread.

Scotiasdarling · 23/10/2025 12:28

Priceless. She's a bit absent today. Perhaps asking her husband, he who is a consultant psychiatrist, whether he's a doctor or a mister.

Marchesman · 23/10/2025 16:31

Sevillian · 23/10/2025 08:43

mumsneedwine · 19/10/2025 18:19

To quote Mary Twain (as I know a certain someone loves a literary context), 'Statistics, damn lies and statistics'. Facts on the other hand are just that. Facts.

The original post intended for this thread.

Thankyou.

A classic post, preachy, smug, and wrong.

There is research showing that social media amplifies the Dunning-Kruger effect. It is well illustrated in this thread by individuals who base their conclusions and opinions on a small selection of "facts", drawn from a substantially larger evidence base which is ignored, and then endlessly repeat them. It is interesting to observe in real time.

Sevillian · 23/10/2025 16:38

Scotiasdarling · 23/10/2025 12:28

Priceless. She's a bit absent today. Perhaps asking her husband, he who is a consultant psychiatrist, whether he's a doctor or a mister.

No doubt he works long hours.

Sevillian · 23/10/2025 16:54

I'm also not clear about PurpleFairyLight's point about visas:

'I suspect there will be a visa element at first. The Labour government will not want to see stories of unemployed UK trained doctors and IMGs getting visas for working as doctors in the NHS.'

Visas are already a requirement for IMGs who don't hold a British passport. But they're bound to be forthcoming on the offer of a training post or a clinical fellowship. The only material differences being proposed are that applicants need to be registered with the GMC at the point of application, and no-one can submit more than five applications for specialty training. This is bound to reduce the overall number of applications but will it reduce the number of IMG appointments? Presumably it's intended to simply get rid of the more speculative/ weaker applications. It's certainly not what mumsneedwine and PurpleFairyLights have been forecasting, but it seems pretty smart to me. What am I missing?

PurpleFairyLights · 23/10/2025 17:08

BMA strike over jobs is fantastic news. UKMG unemployment and reasons for it is now in the news.

Fantastic interview with Arjan Singh.

mumsneedwine · 23/10/2025 17:08

Ah the insults are back ! So sad that their only argument now is rudeness. V sad to see such bad losers.

mumsneedwine · 23/10/2025 17:10

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PurpleFairyLights · 23/10/2025 17:11

mumsneedwine · 23/10/2025 17:08

Ah the insults are back ! So sad that their only argument now is rudeness. V sad to see such bad losers.

Exactly. There is a particularly unpleasant new one to the pro-IMG group.

Fantastic that news of UKMG unemployment has exploded.

I wonder if Arjan Singh will get same insults...

Sevillian · 23/10/2025 17:13

mumsneedwine stop your nonsense.

As you can read for yourself, ramonaquimby last night at 21.22 posted this:

'You've also been called idiots on one of the how to get into medicine threads.'

I therefore looked at the current thread.

Stalking indeed. Don't flatter yourself. Just seeing why and how you were being rude about posters on this thread on an application thread.

mumsneedwine · 23/10/2025 17:13

@PurpleFairyLights feel like popping on to lots of threads to see how far they'll stalk me 😂😂😂.

PurpleFairyLights · 23/10/2025 17:14

This reply has been deleted

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They have said that their child with an MBBS does not work as a doctor...not sure they have any useful wisdom to impart.

mumsneedwine · 23/10/2025 17:14

Ah the sound of victory is so so sweet @PurpleFairyLights