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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

896 replies

Horsehow · 06/10/2025 18:20

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

OP posts:
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61
Sevillian · 22/10/2025 19:03

There are a number of such posts. Read back yourself. Perhaps you've deleted them. No idea. I'm not wasting my evening looking at your posts, but they're there for sure. I need to cook supper and then watch Celebrity Traitors and then take the dogs out for an evening wee so that's my time fully accounted for thanks.

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 19:09

Mumsneedwine before you keep digging yourself a bigger hole, anyone who knew him would know he is Dr. Kar not Mr.

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:19

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 19:03

There are a number of such posts. Read back yourself. Perhaps you've deleted them. No idea. I'm not wasting my evening looking at your posts, but they're there for sure. I need to cook supper and then watch Celebrity Traitors and then take the dogs out for an evening wee so that's my time fully accounted for thanks.

Edited

Convenient

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:23

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 19:09

Mumsneedwine before you keep digging yourself a bigger hole, anyone who knew him would know he is Dr. Kar not Mr.

You have completely misunderstood the post. A word to the (not) wise. Save yourself further embarrassment and take a leaf out of @Sevillian book.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 19:25

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:19

Convenient

Why on earth should I spend a valuable evening looking at your posts for you.

Incredibly unreasonable.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 19:26

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:23

You have completely misunderstood the post. A word to the (not) wise. Save yourself further embarrassment and take a leaf out of @Sevillian book.

This needs to be put through a word unscrambler; completely unintelligible as it stands.

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 19:29

Eh?

Marchesman · 22/10/2025 19:32

mumsneedwine · 22/10/2025 18:16

I'm so sorry. The spires were apparently not the right kind. I'm not as elitist as you I'm afraid.

Not sure why you think I'm on first name terms with anyone ? I'll call them Mr Streeting and Mr Kar if you like. Although I have met one of them a few times.

I do know that Mr Kar is a strong advocate for IMGs already here but also a strong advocate of not having unemployed UKGs. Because he's sensible. He also sees some consultants throwing their juniors under the bus, and he's brave enough to stand up to them. Lots aren't.

Not sure who you think are on admissions teams. Usually semi retired doctors. Who are/were consultants. But hey, carry on with the insults. Those slightly grimy if truth be told spires will still admit many WP students this year. Isn't that grand 😊

You believe that you are in a position to describe "Partha" as "awesome" and then you give him a surgical title.

It is a rookie error to think that consultant physicians (or professors of medicine) are called mister.

Are you sure that you have ever met a consultant (in anything)?

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:41

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 19:26

This needs to be put through a word unscrambler; completely unintelligible as it stands.

Enjoy

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/a%20word%20to%20the%20wise

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:47

Marchesman · 22/10/2025 19:32

You believe that you are in a position to describe "Partha" as "awesome" and then you give him a surgical title.

It is a rookie error to think that consultant physicians (or professors of medicine) are called mister.

Are you sure that you have ever met a consultant (in anything)?

Wow petty. Mr son is a Mr but is not insulted when called doctor.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 19:47

I'm so sorry. The spires were apparently not the right kind. I'm not as elitist as you I'm afraid

It's not about elitism in any way. It's about getting a reference right: 'dreaming spires' is a beautiful phrase from the Matthew Arnold poem whereas 'gleaming spires' jars, conjuring up a picture of scaffolding for HS2 somewhere up the M42 (J6 or thereabouts).

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 19:48

Apologies mumsneedwine, I know how much you loathe literature and all references to it.

Marchesman · 22/10/2025 19:49

HostessTrolley · 22/10/2025 18:51

Are the Partha Kar quotes definitely about IMGs? Just asking because the first two could equally be about the rise in PAs (and various ACPs) on doctor rotas and describing themselves as being equivalent to a registrar, there's a lot of discussion about this and the impact on medical recruitment and the direction of medicine as a career on Twitter..

All of the above, none of which I would disagree with. For example: https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r33

But I doubt that he would be pleased to know that his comments are being used to support an argument for appointment by nationality instead of by merit.

Partha Kar: The new storm propagated by poor medical workforce planning is now upon us

A storm is brewing in the NHS medical workforce. The problem is a lack of jobs for doctors, resulting in questions about competition for jobs between local graduates and international medical graduates (IMGs). An artificial bottleneck has been created...

https://www.bmj.com/content/388/bmj.r33

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:49

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 19:29

Eh?

I have left the other one for you to look up

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 19:55

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:49

I have left the other one for you to look up

Why on earth are you quoting me and then talking rubbish? What do you want me to look up for you?

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 19:56

Sorry, what on earth.

Marchesman · 22/10/2025 19:57

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 19:47

Wow petty. Mr son is a Mr but is not insulted when called doctor.

I made no reference to insults. That is a typically incorrect inference on your part. I was happy to be called mister by half of my patients, the point is I was never, ever, called mister by any sort of colleague, no matter how remote the relationship.

My comment was about ignorance.

mumsneedwine · 22/10/2025 20:02

Evening shift has arrived 😂. BAPIO really don't like us @PurpleFairyLights.

mumsneedwine · 22/10/2025 20:02

Consultants are called Mr ? Not Dr.

mumsneedwine · 22/10/2025 20:03

Or at least they are in the UK

PurpleFairyLights · 22/10/2025 20:04

Scotiasdarling · 22/10/2025 19:55

Why on earth are you quoting me and then talking rubbish? What do you want me to look up for you?

I will try to make this simple for you.

Your post said "eh?" Because you thought you were being funny when in fact it showed your complete ignorance of the meaning of: the phrases I used. I kindly posted the meaning for you.

The pharade A word to the wise. I put (not) in front of wise as you have shown only limited understanding in all your posts.

Take a leaf out of Sevillian 's book. You can look up the meaning of that one for yourself.

Sevillian · 22/10/2025 20:05

I haven't written a book Confused

stuffedpeppers · 22/10/2025 20:06

!Once qualified there are many more competencies that have to be signed off as well as further exams. And every year you have to pass a panel to prove you are working to the required standard. Don't pass you are given time to improve but if can't then lose licence."

_Utter utter rubbish - where do you get your misinformation from. Yes exams, yes ARCPs - but you do not lose your licence if you fail.

Mum/ Purple - you both believe that selection to medical school at 17/18 should guarantee you employment FY1/2, CT1/2, ST3-8 provided you can tick the boxes - there are a number of actual medics on here who fundamentally disagree with this concept.

  • Medicine is not a science it is an art and intelligent people learn how to play the system make the requirements to continue , scrape past the post. The pressure on trainers to pass people is not insignificant and the threats of HR investigations and discrimination whether true or not are common. It is a brave trainer who stands up and says actually - stop, this is not for you, you are scraping by.

That does not make for brilliant doctors who have been challenged, faced adversity and go the extra mile for their patients, challenge theories and do research to push science further.

At 17 i wanted to be a pathologist, at the end of medschool I thought dermatology was my calling and now I am something completely different. Run through training that you ardently advocate for does not allow you to step off the treadmill, reassess, try something different and make adult decisions.
When we had run through training in the mid 2000s, there were many people saying I have run through but really want to do this. They knew if they gave up their run through the chances of getting to where they wanted to be were slim.

Those that did struggled for 2-3 yrs to get where they wanted on a different programme and many failed.
Some are now employed as consultants in the run through speciality they chose aged 23/24 and are disgruntled and not as effective as having the opportunity to try before they bought into a life time career.

I have never been against UKMGs but am able to see a bigger picture of training as a whole and one size does not fit all and run through training disadvantages many. Go to australia for a year you will be behind the FY2s for a job - is that fair. Do research for 2 years - you will be a lower priority than an FY2.

Sometime it would be nice on these threads if you actually took a stepabck and accepted that one size does not fit all, that all PAs and IMGs are bad and IMGS can also be British citizens and have as much right to a job and training in their own country than someone who just went to a British medical school.

stuffedpeppers · 22/10/2025 20:08

But i live in hope of a polite, rational thought process that recognises other peoples opinions and does not insult them - call them liars, impostors, fakes and just generally be nasty and patronising.

stuffedpeppers · 22/10/2025 20:09

I fundamentally disagree with your view point but at no point have I been as rude condescending and patronising as you two.