To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

I suspect there will be a visa element at first. The Labour government will not want to see stories of unemployed UK trained doctors and IMGs getting visas for working as doctors in the NHS.

I have a very interesting document that gives the stats of how much legal migration is down to IMG doctors and it worse than I thought.

HEE did mention the 10 year plan which has already said UKMGs will take priority.

I don't think you should be celebrating the prospect of more unemployed UKMGs yet.

Further, the application threads on MN are almost painfully middle class. Overwhelmingly leafy comps, grammars and independents.

@mumsneedwine remember the WP conference you went to? 😂

I've never ever celebrated unemployment. What an extraordinary thing to say. I simply like merit to win through, regardless of any accidental characteristics such as nationality.

I only ask because neither you nor mumsneedwine have mentioned the changes for 2026; rather you've been telling us that 'Wes is listening' 'Change must come in time for the 2026 round' (in other words, for your DS). Lots of drum banging anyhow. So I wondered if you were content with the changes. And yes, they're set out as a holding mechanism for the moment - indeed it's probably a trial. Seems remarkably sensible unless I'm missing something, which I might well be. Anyhow, no-one else was mentioning the changes so I thought I'd flick them in.

@Sevillian is correct. As you should have learned to anticipate by now.

"Reported use of preparation resources varies between candidates from different socio-demographic backgrounds and is associated independently with performance in the UCAT."

https://doi.org/10.1186/s12909-022-03811-y

Continued uncontrolled IMG applications to UK specialty training = UKMG unemployment.

No other country has IMGs competing with their doctors for specialty training. Your merit argument is ridiculous.

I think you mean that my merit argument is beyond you, which is not synonymous with it being ridiculous. Maybe check back to the post about sepsis, a page or two back.

@PurpleFairyLights was at a lovely one yesterday. Amazing how the people in charge of these 'top' medicine courses don't think they are 'top'. Lots of v rude comments made about posters on this thread, lots of laughter at their ignorance about UK medicine today. Strategic applying is so important, and only people who don't want others to succeed would suggest otherwise.

We know the truth. The v v few on here who keep spouting their lies and hatred of all things UKG have lost. Thankfully.

Oh and GMC will be publishing the UKMLA results v soon, they make for interesting reading (nearly ever final year in the UK passed !). As they should. Weirdly they've delayed introducing it for IMGs (it's been deemed harder than PLAB - by IMGs).

Well, we've strayed back into the world of pure fantasy again :)

All these nasty insults.

Tactical applying has nothing to do with 'weaker' students. The ignorance is outstanding !

You could have 4 A stars, 37 9s and still not get an interview if you apply incorrectly. Get a UCAT over 2,400 then you're ok anywhere with perfect stats, but as that's less than 5% of all applicants what do you suggest the rest do ? Or are they all unworthy ?

You often say that what I and a few other posters write is beyond you. How can it be an insult to use your words and only your words. You said it again only moments ago!

Not fantasy. But certainly v fantastic. Why weren't you there Sevil, what with being so integral in WP ? Lovely v senior consultants and NHS bods. All advocating for UKGs. Isn't it fantastic !

@HostessTrolley they would be international. It's where you trained. So they'll have been in an equal footing with your DD from a UK uni. And will be for any other jobs currently.

Carry on. You just show yourself up. I only worry about what people I respect think.

Please point out posts where I say things are "beyond me"

Love the idea of my school being a 'leafy' comp. Not sure we've even got a tree nearby. Or grass. Our 'playing fields' are on the roof. Awesome view though. And I've helped many many WP, in care and young carers on MN, so again the ignorance is telling. Sad really.

They will only "make for interesting reading" once they have been published.

Until then we will evidently have to put up with you pretending that you have a hotline to the GMC, and the predictions of people who know what they are talking about:

"The primary problem is that qualification rates from different medical schools are very similar, which perhaps makes little sense given differences in both entry standards and postgraduate performance. The then chair of the GMC said that there needs to be a solution to the problem of there currently being “36 different ways of qualifying as a doctor in the UK”, with standards at finals in effect being set locally rather than nationally. The forthcoming UK Medical Licensing Assessment (UKMLA) has been suggested to be an important part of the solution to that problem, but it could, and perhaps should, result in raised failure rates at some medical schools." https://doi.org/10.1186/s12916-020-01572-3

@Marchesman 🤷‍♀️ not a hotline to GMC. But plenty to admissions staff. You'll hate them when they come out officially 😂.

Until then, enjoy trashing UKGs. No idea why, as a consultant, you don't advocate for your own staff. Thankfully many consultants do. Vocally and BACK it up with action. Thought you'd enjoy a screenshot, from a v senior doctor.

Please don't tell us it ended in the pub. Too samey. Could you all go to the opera instead and read the MN threads/ roar with laughter in the interval?

Sorry mumsneedwine, but it's just not the case that senior consultants plural would read a MN thread at an admissions session, even with a teacher who was attending on behalf of their school or trust which you told us last time you weren't (you can revisit the last thread yourself). I can't think of a single one who wouldn't think producing such a thread was absolutely mad, let alone deeply unprofessional. Since this is the third or fourth time you've made this same claim I'm going to call it out. It's just not in any way credible. Perfectly credible that you might occasionally attend an admissions gig (although very unusual not to be sponsored by your school), but no, senior consultants giving up valuable time will not be spending it reading a MN thread.

Ah it's so boring now. Don't like what your hear, then insult, call a liar, denigrate. V sad, v elitist behaviour.

Off home. Had a wonderful couple of days with lovely doctors and today lovely WP students. All have the ability to critically think without becoming abusive. The future looks bright !

Oh and they only read the thread because I pass them my phone 😂. And I enjoy their faces when they read the drivel written. Many consultants are on admissions staff you know.

When I thought things couldn't get any more insane there is this: "Strategic applying is so important, and only people who don't want others to succeed would suggest otherwise."

The whole point of strategic applying is to make sure that "one's DC" succeeds while someone else's - on average of lower socioeconomic status - does not!

Absolutely incredible.

Much is incredible on this thread, literally.

OK, it just got even worse.

This is a quote from Partha Kar who was lamenting the growing hostility towards IMGs.

Awkward. That won't get a response then.