To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

So a UK citizen who trained abroad and can do plab has the same right to a training place as any UKMG?

73% of trainees are UK graduates - GMC Workforce Report 2024. (From which you repeatedly screenshot one chart, but which you conspicuously have not read.)

Because you are currently saying a non british citizen has more priority for a job the UK than a British citizen simply on the basis of their medical school.

@stuffedpeppers yes

They have the SAME priority. No one has ever said more.

So 27% are not UKGs ? That's quite a significant number.

No they do not under everything you have argued this year.

You have repeatedly said IMGs should not be prioritised over UKMGs - that the medical school be the right to higher training.

You have failed to recognise that large numbers of British citizens go overseas to train - Malta, Ireland, Bulgaria, Romania, West Indies, Czech Republic, for whatever reason and fully expect to return to their home country to work. However, because they are IMGs they are less worthy than UKMGs who are British citizens and UKMGs that are not British citizens

Name another country who bases their job priority on the medical school, not their citizenship?

Pretty much every country UKGs go too. No one has ever talked about citizenship ? Young people who come to the UK to qualify are then left jobless as UKGs. This is wrong.

UK grads. UK jobs.

There may have to be a special category as they are UK nationals.

I love the way you are trying to divert the thread for the sake of a few hundred at most in that category

Screen shot it then and the one for 2025

If you are a doctor. Think back to pre BREXIT and how many UK citizens trained in Europe..

Once more, had you read the GMC workforce analysis you would know that the commonest point for a foreign graduate to enter the workforce is 2 years post primary medical qualification, not 20.

If you have been qualified for 20 years you are not entering as a CT1. To imply this indicates an understanding of the situation as superficial as it is dogmatic.

Most of them had to do PLAB with few exceptions. They would have known this when they decided to train abroad.

My son is bilingual and could have trained in another country with ease but it was complicated when it came to F1..

There are a lot that have been doctors a long time and entering specialty training.

It really is.

If these pro-IMG posters continue I shudder to think who will be in our next government.

Already questions are being asked about how UK is granting visas to foreign workers when our own graduates are unemployed (including doctors).

The Resident Labour Market Test must come back pronto.

You do not have to grant a visa to work to a British citizen trained in the Czech republic!

So do you extrapolate your argument further that UK medical schools should not be training international students when there are hundreds of British citizens unable to get a place in a British medical school and hence go overseas.

Knowing that certain higher education institutions have been targetting international student numbers as they pay more

I have told you how it worked in the past before Brexit. I was not involved in making the rules then.

The number of international students at UK universities has a cap unlike the number of IMGs applying for Specialty Training.

Please stop attempting to divert the conversation away from the 20,802 IMGs that applied for specialty training in 2025.

HostessTrolley
If you divide that starting salary by your £19/hr then divide by 52 that would imply that F1s are working 39 hour weeks - a F1 doctor's standard week is 48 hours, which starts to make the hourly rate look a bit different.

An F1 doctor's basic salary is based on a standard 40-hour week, plus additional pay for any hours over 40.

I think some CAN be, yes, and that with the stakes as they are in medicine, it should be a place of meritocracy not nationalism.

The 20 year not fair mantra has permeated every thread. Take the false premise away and the stark reality of a merit based approach is laid bare. Hence the false premise remains, because very clearly the idea of competition on merit is unpalatable to those nursing a grudge.

I think the UK is unique globally in not giving legal preference to its own citizens in the job market. IT used to be that the job had to be advertised in the UK first, then only advertised internationally if that was unsuccessful, but Boris Johnson changed the law, so that the NHS and other employers can advertise directly overseas. You have British nursing graduates quite literally unable to find a job, while nursing jobs are given to people on the other side of the world. It is deranged. You would also think the NHS might prefer UK qualifications, as the standard is verifiable, but no. When a junior doctor applies for a job, their details are almost entirely anonymised. You can't see where they studied.

No grudge just UKMGs prioritised for specialty training. 93 countries prioritise their own medical graduates as we did until January 2020.

There is no evidence that IMGs are better doctors or that UKMGs and UK medical education is deficient as you and your colleagues keep saying.

Anyone that disagrees get veiled comments of racism and blatant comments about xenophobia.

Agree with everything you say. The pro-IMG lobby refuse to see sense. I wonder why? Worryingly two "say" they are NHS doctors. I have had some very interesting private messages with possible explanations.

I just want the Resident Labour Market Test (RLMT) to be reinstated to what it was before January 2020. This would reinstate priority for UKMGs and IMGs can apply for any vacancies that have not been taken up by UKMGs. Australia does this.

Before the RLMT was abolished there were no arguments that IMGs were better doctors or UKMGs were deficient in some way.

Also with the huge amount of legal migration how can the UK be giving foreign doctors visas when we have unemployed UKMGs.

Why medical students are choosing Bulgaria over UK - BBC News https://share.google/opvQWG6Ag3ThwuA0W

You've already been told that no-one posting here is 'pro IMG'. They are pro competition and pro merit.

I've no idea why you keep using the word 'suspicious'. I can only assume that any poster who finds your arguments/ numbers/ quotes flawed is suspected of being involved in the recruitment of overseas trained doctors for financial gain. Which I most certainly am not, never have been and never will be. So perhaps you could stop doing the hint hint stuff. Almost all the other posters who take issue with you have shown convincingly that they are currently employed in the NHS, so again, not in commercial recruitment. '...interesting private messages with possible explanations'. PurpleFairyLights we're not in a Y9 all girls school here. Posters disagree with you, make compelling points which you don't like, that's the long and the short of it. Nothing else to see.