To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

Z and X are next to each other on my phone keyboard. Sorry, not sorry that it irritates you.

😂 no argument, pick on the spelling. Do wonder why Seville is so adamant we are wrong, when every one in the medical world now acknowledges the problems. The tide has turned and UKG priority is coming, too slowly in my book, but it's guaranteed now. The fight is done. Thankfully.

Exactly. Wonder why some posters are so invested in IMGs taking priority over UKMGs.

You are evidently in the grip of some sort of delusion.

Royal College of Physicians - "Plans to reduce the intake from overseas, although in line with ethical recruitment, will substantially negatively impact the number of WTE consultant physicians when NHS demand will be at its highest";

GMC - "Due to increases in medical school places, the decrease in the proportion of the workforce who are UK graduates may slow or come to a stop. It could even start growing again. Regardless, each UK country will still need large numbers of non-UK graduates until 2036";

Royal College of Emergency Medicine - "We welcome the increase in the number of international medical graduates to our workforce here in the UK and we value and welcome their core contribution to our health system".

Even if postgraduate entry were to be more difficult for foreign graduates, the solution would simply be to enter the system earlier when UK medical schools would be more than happy to have them.

I agree it would make sense for junior doctors to strike over refusal to prioritise them for jobs.

No other British industry allows unlimited competition from abroad for work. There has to be shortage to get a skilled visa and even then the company has to sponsor them

Unfortunately many British medics I know don't want to push as it is "racist".

And the BMA is anyway controlled by overseas medics.

Where has anyone actually said that there is not a problem.

What they have not agreed with is the anti PA and IMG rhetoric that has come out in these discussions.

What they have said is not all medical schools are equal and there are differences in the knowledge and abilities of all medical graduates -as there are in walk of life.

What they have not done is call some deaneries unpopular, criticised medical graduates who are more interested in academics than" actually treating" patients, not spouted absolute rubbish about pay and not called other posters liars, stupid, fakes and privileged impostors.

Prioritising UKMGs does not mean that IMGs will not apply - good luck to them all, competition is healthy.

They have also said that not all UKMGS and IMGs are up to the job - as in any profession. They would rather have a brilliantly gifted IMG circa Mr M Yacoub be given an opportunity, than a UKMG who has scraped through training and been guaranteed a relatively well paid job from the age of 18 simply because they graduated from the a UK Medical School but really has 2 left hands but because he is a UKMG - that last unfilled slot in urology will be given to them.

Those of us actually in the profession recognise that we have been trained and work with brilliant UK trained doctors and internationally trained doctors and we are all better off for having that breadth of experience to draw on.

Let me just ask, to those saying it’s disgraceful we hire foreign doctors over British doctors - your child has sepsis. Who do you want to treat them? The best doctor for the job, or the less good doctor we had to hire over the best candidate, just because they happen to be British….?

Thank you stuffedpeppers and yes absolutely PortSalutPlease.

You are out in force tonight.

So you think IMGs are better doctors than UKMGs?

Some IMGS are better than some UK trained doctors and some UK trained doctors are better than IMGs.

The natural spread of life and an irrefutable fact.

Why you find that basic concept so difficult to grasp without getting offended every 5 minutes is beyond my comprehension.

Completely agree. The pro-IMG lobbying needs to reign itself in. They will cause a huge problem for the future.

UK is the only country in the world that does not prioritise its own graduates.

I wonder why they are pushing IMGs so hard? There are usually 3 or 4 pro-IMGs that flood this thread.

I am angry because UKMGs should not be unemployed due to unfair competition ratios due to IMGs.

The UK should prioritise its own graduates like 93 other countries do.

It is suspicious that the 3 or 4 regular pro-IMGs cannot see this.

"I am angry because UKMGs should not be unemployed due to unfair competition ratios due to IMGs."

But you are happy that someone not suited to the job will treat you just because they are a UKMG and were guaranteed a job, than someone competent and gifted simply because they are an IMG.

Where do you sit on British citizens who went and trained overseas because they did not get/ could not afford a place at a UK medical school - should they ahve a right to come home to their own country and work?

I am not Pro IMGs - I am pro healthy competition and the best people getting the job. Not all IMGs who apply have years of experience, many are applying straight out of medical school - but then those of us who are actually involved in selection and short listing know this.

Should the UK prioritise their own citizens with medical degrees?

You "say" you are a doctor.

Please justify how an F2 who has been a doctor for 2 years should be competing with an IMG of 20 years. How is that fair?

How do you know IMGs are gifted? Portfolio and interview? We have all read the concerns about IMGs not being investigated robustly.

They should prioritise staff that they have trained. Regardless of nationality. Otherwise it's a waste of money.

Love the idea of 'healthy competition'. Something that never happened when these consultants were SHOs. They never had to deal with IMGs taking their jobs

I have not seen an IMG with 20 yrs experience getting a CT training post - and challenge you to proof.

How people present themselves both on portfolio and at interview can be very telling - you can learn a lot from both processes.

There is an awful lot of unproven rhetoric from those who are claiming all is unfair. Most of the posts went to UKMGS - so it is not all bad.

Some specialities don't interview. (Eg GP and Psych). All on MSRA.
55% of GP posts went to IMGs last year

If UK citizen did medical degree abroad they would count as IMG.

If a student from Nigeria did their mwdical degree at a UK medical school they would be a UKMG.

When don't you think UKG should get priority (like the other 93 countries) ? What do you want to waste tax payers money training doctors who then can't get jobs ?

Prove most posts went to UKMGs...

Why do you think a British citizen should not have the same rights to work in this country as another British citizen with equivalent qualifications?

Because it is about where you did your degree. It was always like that. UK citizens that trained abroad had to do the PLAB.

To be fair the rules need to be consistent.