Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

896 replies

Horsehow · 06/10/2025 18:20

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
61
Sevillian · 21/10/2025 09:25

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 09:11

Why medical students are choosing Bulgaria over UK - BBC News https://share.google/opvQWG6Ag3ThwuA0W

This was in yesterday's news. It doesn't say much of interest except that if you don't even have grades which can get you into the least competitive UK medical schools and you have money, Bulgaria may be an option.

mumsneedwine · 21/10/2025 09:26

Again, losing the argument so resort to personal insults. I personally quite like year 9 girls. They are a pretty astute savvy bunch. Can certainly understand when things are wrong and unfair.

But there are a few (a v few) posters who just love to denigrate UKGs (unless they went to their choice of 5 Unis). And who believe wasting tax payers money is a good thing. Weird. But thankfully they have lost as prioritisation is coming v soon. 🥂

mumsneedwine · 21/10/2025 09:27

Not sure what 'grudge' I'm secretly nursing ? Having a lovely day at a v pretty Uni with wonderful admissions staff. Surprised you're not here Seville ?

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 10:41

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 09:25

This was in yesterday's news. It doesn't say much of interest except that if you don't even have grades which can get you into the least competitive UK medical schools and you have money, Bulgaria may be an option.

I put it up as one poster got particularly agitated about this topic yesterday evening.

Personally I have no interest as my son got 4 offers from UK medical schools.

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 10:44

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 09:21

You've already been told that no-one posting here is 'pro IMG'. They are pro competition and pro merit.

I've no idea why you keep using the word 'suspicious'. I can only assume that any poster who finds your arguments/ numbers/ quotes flawed is suspected of being involved in the recruitment of overseas trained doctors for financial gain. Which I most certainly am not, never have been and never will be. So perhaps you could stop doing the hint hint stuff. Almost all the other posters who take issue with you have shown convincingly that they are currently employed in the NHS, so again, not in commercial recruitment. '...interesting private messages with possible explanations'. PurpleFairyLights we're not in a Y9 all girls school here. Posters disagree with you, make compelling points which you don't like, that's the long and the short of it. Nothing else to see.

The year 9 girls comment is totally inappropriate.

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:19

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 10:44

The year 9 girls comment is totally inappropriate.

It's not in the least inappropriate when a poster uses childish devices ('interesting private messages') to imply slurs against others. Due to that type of post being not the sort of post one would expect of an adult.

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:20

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 10:41

I put it up as one poster got particularly agitated about this topic yesterday evening.

Personally I have no interest as my son got 4 offers from UK medical schools.

The poster was not in the least 'agitated', on any normal reading of the posts.

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:22

It's also worth remembering that while people should still be civil, this is a thread in AIBU, so posts have a little more latitude.

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 11:29

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:20

The poster was not in the least 'agitated', on any normal reading of the posts.

In my opinion they were. Who gets so involved in something to do with UK citizens doing a degree in another country?

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:31

Your language doesn't need to be heightened. The poster wasn't 'so involved'. They were simply calling out your logic.

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 11:32

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:19

It's not in the least inappropriate when a poster uses childish devices ('interesting private messages') to imply slurs against others. Due to that type of post being not the sort of post one would expect of an adult.

Why would you think private messages were a slur against others? They contain information for me to look into regarding the IMG issue. Not everything is about you.

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:35

I never said anything was about me.

This is what you said, copied and pasted: The pro-IMG lobby refuse to see sense. I wonder why? Worryingly two "say" they are NHS doctors. I have had some very interesting private messages with possible explanations.

That is clearly suggesting something negative - there's no alternative explanation.

OneDivineHammer · 21/10/2025 11:36

Horsehow · 19/10/2025 22:00

I’m not a parent of a medical graduate. My kids have no interest in this as a career. I find most doctors my age unbelievably pompous (one of the posters on here is a case in point!) and certainly don’t think they’re worth their salary, but if we give students a place on a degree course, they and we plough money into training them then I think it’s madness to give the graduate places to non-UK students. Why not just close all of our medical schools and recruit every doctor fully trained from overseas? It would save us loads. Medicine is one of the degrees that cost the most for a uni to run afterall.

^^ This, with bells on!

If we're awarding UK posts increasingly to doctors trained overseas, fine - let's just close down UK medical schools (as they are exceptionally expensive degrees for the country to finance) and recruit solely from overseas - with all the layers of bureaucracy that involves.

BUT it generally, in fact, still makes financial and ethical sense to recruit from UK grads first and foremost.

(a) employers can be significantly more confident that qualifications are appropriate and have been legitimately acquired.
(b) it stops the drain of medical professionals from countries which need to hang on to them (perhaps called red list? I can't recall)
(c) standards of spoken English are generally guaranteed to be perfectly suited to the NHS's needs
(d) self-sufficiency (or as near as possible) removes the risk involved were the supply of overseas candidates suddenly to dry up for some reason
(e) employing UK grads reduces the likelihood of employees leaving the NHS to head back overseas for aging parents/better quality of life/money going further, etc

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 11:40

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:35

I never said anything was about me.

This is what you said, copied and pasted: The pro-IMG lobby refuse to see sense. I wonder why? Worryingly two "say" they are NHS doctors. I have had some very interesting private messages with possible explanations.

That is clearly suggesting something negative - there's no alternative explanation.

The messages are giving me information to explore. Not my problem that you are concerned.

OneDivineHammer · 21/10/2025 11:47

Genevieva · 21/10/2025 08:33

I think the UK is unique globally in not giving legal preference to its own citizens in the job market. IT used to be that the job had to be advertised in the UK first, then only advertised internationally if that was unsuccessful, but Boris Johnson changed the law, so that the NHS and other employers can advertise directly overseas. You have British nursing graduates quite literally unable to find a job, while nursing jobs are given to people on the other side of the world. It is deranged. You would also think the NHS might prefer UK qualifications, as the standard is verifiable, but no. When a junior doctor applies for a job, their details are almost entirely anonymised. You can't see where they studied.

Really? That is fucking insane. 😂

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:56

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 11:40

The messages are giving me information to explore. Not my problem that you are concerned.

If these are purely private messages not in any way commenting on other posters then you should be particularly careful not to weave them in as you do. Because as it stands your post as good as states that these messages contained negative ('interesting') information about what you (mis)label the 'pro IMG lobby' and more specifically referencing two posters who you seem to doubt are actually doctors ('who ''say'' they are NHS doctors').

Language is important - there's nothing more to say on the point.

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 12:07

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 11:56

If these are purely private messages not in any way commenting on other posters then you should be particularly careful not to weave them in as you do. Because as it stands your post as good as states that these messages contained negative ('interesting') information about what you (mis)label the 'pro IMG lobby' and more specifically referencing two posters who you seem to doubt are actually doctors ('who ''say'' they are NHS doctors').

Language is important - there's nothing more to say on the point.

Edited

No messages are about you. Truely amazed that you think they are.

I have been sent information about various aspects of these threads that I will explore.

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 12:10

OneDivineHammer · 21/10/2025 11:47

Really? That is fucking insane. 😂

It really is but there are posters on here that think this situation should continue.

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 12:24

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 12:07

No messages are about you. Truely amazed that you think they are.

I have been sent information about various aspects of these threads that I will explore.

Again, I haven't said that anything is about me although I have said that I'm not a BAPIO fifth columnist.

I'm merely saying that your post about private messages can only be read as to suggest that these messages contain negative allegations about other posters on the thread. Especially with your repeated use of the word 'suspicious' about the so called 'pro IMG lobby'.

Maybe don't refer to private messages at all unless you can keep negative implications out of it.

Fifiesta · 21/10/2025 12:32

PropertyD · 06/10/2025 18:48

They should hang their heads in shame.

Successive governments? Totally agree!

All the publicised empty posts, are not recruited as the hospitals cannot fund them in practice. After spending 6 years studying, accruing a massive student debts, (twice as much as the normal loan); the next stage training jobs should be guaranteed. News flash - they are not!

Another myth buster - the same graduates are not the product of the wealthiest homes and education in the land, my child and the majority their circle of med student friends had average parents, with average jobs, were state educated in a local comp, and had no money tree growing in their front gardens to cushion them.

When and if they manage to secure and complete their foundation years, and specialist training finding a consultant position that is permanent, is the next challenge or should I say, increasingly ‘needle in a haystack’.

There should be anger about this - directed at politicians who spend taxpayers money with empty promises to the population as regards running a robust health service, and the bright people that sacrifice their young lives in high service and study - and increasingly without a career to put all of that into practice.

Total disgrace.

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 12:38

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 12:24

Again, I haven't said that anything is about me although I have said that I'm not a BAPIO fifth columnist.

I'm merely saying that your post about private messages can only be read as to suggest that these messages contain negative allegations about other posters on the thread. Especially with your repeated use of the word 'suspicious' about the so called 'pro IMG lobby'.

Maybe don't refer to private messages at all unless you can keep negative implications out of it.

Edited

I have not breached any mumsnet guidelines. Please refrain from attempting to tell me what I should post.

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 12:47

PurpleFairyLights the fact that you keep calling a particular group of posters 'suspicious' is getting perilously close to breaching guidleines, and inferring that others are sending private messages about this same group (or two of them anyhow) certainly isn't in the spirit of MN. That's all.

Sparingthehorses · 21/10/2025 13:46

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 09:11

Why medical students are choosing Bulgaria over UK - BBC News https://share.google/opvQWG6Ag3ThwuA0W

Couldn’t get the grades/interview success for UK med school but no problem Bulgaria will take you and you can come back to practice. How do you feel about that Marchesman and Sevillian? Particularly when you both consider the entry bar for UK med school to be woefully low.

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 14:00

I've already mentioned that the students who go to Bulgaria are the ones who can't get into even the least competitive of the UK unis. I would say that their prospects aren't good. I'm sure you expected that answer.

PurpleFairyLights · 21/10/2025 14:40

Sevillian · 21/10/2025 12:47

PurpleFairyLights the fact that you keep calling a particular group of posters 'suspicious' is getting perilously close to breaching guidleines, and inferring that others are sending private messages about this same group (or two of them anyhow) certainly isn't in the spirit of MN. That's all.

Edited

No messages have been sent about other posters. The posts have information that is of interest to me.

Of course I have doubts about posters that think the current system of IMG recruitment is sustainable and fair to UKMGs.