To finally agree with a junior doctors strike

[Horsehow]

Junior doctors have decided to strike as they are being overlooked for jobs / training posts which are instead given to international applicants. I’ve always abhorred their money grabbing strikes in the past, but support this one 100%. UK doctors should be recruited where possible, and international graduates only turned to where we cannot find a suitable recruit in the UK.

That radical publication (irony for those who miss these kind of things) The Lancet, sees the problems and states them. There ARE unemployed ex F2/3/4s this year. There ARE unemployed GPs. Facts. Not liking the facts doesn't make them untrue.

Why would I bother posting them ? My own DD is v happily in run through training. Have no personal interest as a mum. But I know some of these doctors and it's a travesty.

Completely agree. The tide has turned. Priority for UKMGs (and IMGs who have worked in NHS for 2-5+ years) for jobs and training places and anything left IMGs can apply. So back to pre-2020.

Why interpret statistics to understand the real story when you can use the headline stats for a dramatic soundbite?

Also, wtf has Donald Trump got to do with anything? Very bizarre to bring in POTUS for absolutely no reason. Is it to establish left wing credentials? I daresay mine are at least as good as yours but as a general comment, it's really grating when others on the left assert a monopoly of virtue as a few sometimes do. Obviously I'm not accusing you of that mumsneedwine; as I say, just a general comment tripped by the sudden introduction of Donald Trump into a totally unrelated conversation.

@PurpleFairyLights but there are some who don't like that. They'd prefer unemployed UKGs. Why I will never understand.

Possibly - could be wrong of course - because some aren't really bothered by the accident of national boundaries and prefer posts to be awarded on merit.

I'm wondering how bothered you are on behalf of all those graduates of other disciplines who haven't managed to get a job in their related field mumsneedwine and PurpleFairyLights?

Because this whole discussion appears to have started out as supremely parochial. A small group of mothers whose DC hadn't secured training posts or were concerned that they wouldn't.

I still can't quite see why graduates of Medicine should be singled out as especially special. I certainly don't treat my DC differently according to which degree they read, since those pursuing a medical career are no better and no worse and of no more value or less value to society than their siblings.

There is absolutely no good reason to beatify medical school graduates; it's entirely ridiculous.

They have made it abundantly clear, if it wasn't already, that their hostility towards "IMG"s stems from their concern for the career prospects of their children or friends, and not for the NHS.

I must assume that the repetitive posting of applicant numbers by country of origin, and a GMC chart showing increasing foreign graduates in the workforce is intended to support their position. But how it achieves this eludes me when the same chart shows that UK graduate numbers joining the workforce are undiminished, and the RCP sponsored Lancet paper (also chosen as supporting evidence) repeatedly stresses the dire consequences of reducing the intake of foreign graduates.

Perhaps one or both of them can provide clarification?

I can't be bothered to reply to your tangential, verbose posts.

I will keep it simple. UK to prioritise its own medical graduates just like 93 other countries. This means we go back to pre 2020 position and reinstate the Resident Labour Test. This would end the farce that 63% of applicants for specialty training in the UK were IMGs in 2025 contributing to UKMGs unemployment.

I am only interested in doctors. Parents of other graduates can get involved but the large amount of legal migration may be causing the same type of problems.

That's one "no".

Yep.

The posts are getting more xenophobic again. True colours and all that.

They have made it abundantly clear, if it wasn't already, that their hostility towards "IMG"s stems from their concern for the career prospects of their children or friends, and not for the NHS

And yes again. I don't know why at this stage I bother to be oblique/ polite.

Ridiculous to say it is xenophobic to want UK to prioritise UKMGs like it did before 2020. 93 other countries do this.

Unfortunately the anti-UKMG sentiment by certain posters is palpable and inappropriate especially if working within the NHS.

I’m not a parent of a medical graduate. My kids have no interest in this as a career. I find most doctors my age unbelievably pompous (one of the posters on here is a case in point!) and certainly don’t think they’re worth their salary, but if we give students a place on a degree course, they and we plough money into training them then I think it’s madness to give the graduate places to non-UK students. Why not just close all of our medical schools and recruit every doctor fully trained from overseas? It would save us loads. Medicine is one of the degrees that cost the most for a uni to run afterall.

Secretary of State for Health xenophobic?
Of course not. Sensible countries prioritise their own medical graduates

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/british-doctors-nhs-10-year-plan-streeting-b2779942.html

I see your point. Unfortunately what would we do if all the IMGs decided to leave the UK once they had qualified as a GP or consultant?

The UK medical graduates are more likely to stay to work in the UK. Firstly because they have lives here and secondly because it is very difficult to get work outside of the UK as a doctor.

@HorsehowAnd it's completely unethical to recruit doctors from red list countries. Which is what is happening. Leaving those countries short of staff.
What you advocate is someone else paying for the training and the UK getting any benefit. Not v ethical either.

Not seen the old chestnut of all doctors should be made to work for the NHS for x years to repay their training lately. Maybe because they can't anymore. Because unemployment is a real thing.

We train our doctors well. It's why so many want to come here to train and work. But we employ more IMGs than we need and this is both a waste of money and unethical. We are the only nation to not prioritise our own trained staff (from wherever on the world they originated).

Thankfully many many consultants can see the issues and are prepared to fight. Not ladder pull. The alphabet soup of non doctors playing at being one is being exposed. Doctors are fighting back as they know their worth.

Just when I thought this thread couldn't get more entertaining, we have another hilarious post that tells a different story from the one that was intended. The "on to other professions..." tweet was written by Partha Kar, a British diabetologist who graduated from an Indian university.

He wrote this: "A storm is brewing in the NHS medical workforce. The problem is a lack of jobs for doctors, resulting in questions about competition for jobs between local graduates and international medical graduates (IMGs). An artificial bottleneck has been created by pushing for more medical school places in the NHS long term workforce plan, despite not enough jobs being available for those graduating....

Those in leadership roles must take time to listen to doctors’ views shared on social media platforms and the worrying “them versus us” tone of the discussions. The hostility of some of the language is obvious, with accusations of xenophobia and racism." BMJ 2025;388:r33

I am sure that he would be charmed by the demands for ethnic "prioritisation" that permeate this thread and the misuse of his rhetoric to support it.

This is not the first thread where Partha Kar has been quoted, in the usual screenshot style.

It's an extraordinarily gauche way of posting and, as you've just neatly illustrated Marchesman, risky if backed by no knowledge of context. Thanks once again.

Posters on here have accused posters of xenophobia because they want UKMGs to have priority like 93 other countries. Can you not see your mention of ethnicity looks like veiled accusations of racism along with blatant accusations of zenophobia?

Comedy gold that artificial bottle necks are blamed on the increase in UK medical school places. Yet again the elephant in the room of 20,803 IMGs applying for Specialty Training posts is ignored.

In 2024/25 there were 7500 UK medical school places. This was increased to 7850 in 2025/26. So 350 extra medical places are to blame for the bottleneck, not the 20,803 IMGs applying for Specialty Training posts in 2025.

350 extra UK medical school places vs 20,803 IMGs applying for Specialty Training and it is the 350 extra UK medical school places that have caused the problem?😂

Nonsense. There hasn't been a single accusation of zenophobia on either this or any of the preceding threads.

@sevillian what is this then?

@sevillian See below your post yesterday 20-10-25 at 2134 where you stated:

"The posts are getting more xenophobic again"

Nothing clever about you spelling with a z which the meanest of intelligence would realise is a typo.

A reference to xenophobia.

Completely my call whether I want to be petty.

The poor SPaG is admittedly less irritating than the misrepresentations but come on PFL, if you can manage an x in the first sentence surely we can expect another in the second?