Page 16 | To be absolutely fuming about the digital ID thing?

Rewis · 09/10/2025 14:04

scalt · 09/10/2025 07:33

Those you keep saying "but your stuff is stored and accessible by government already" keep missing an important point.

Yes, driving licence/passports/national insurance details etc. are indeed stored by government already. But it is actually quite difficult for another department to access them: it takes time, money, due process, and probably mountains of paperwork. In theory, the government probably can access an individual's bank accounts if they really want to, but they have to follow due process. Those safeguards exist for a good reason. The police can, in theory, seize anybody's computer, but they need a warrant to do so. The covid enquiry eventually forced Boris to surrender his Whatsapp messages, but he fought tooth and nail to try to prevent this (and guess who paid for it?). At the moment, it's fairly difficult for the government to "keep tabs on every individual, whatever they do, wherever they go". And I think that's how it should be.

Those safeguards are fragile. They only exist as long as the government "allows" them to exist. A future unscrupulous government could take them away with a stroke of the pen, manifesto or no manifesto. We saw how easily Boris prorogued Parliament, and how easily they declared lockdown, with no scrutiny. We've seen how easily Trump can dismantle the safeguards that make him accountable to anybody at all: tyrants around the world are watching with interest. We saw how easily the Canadian truckers had their bank accounts stopped. We saw how easily the government could suppress debate, and any anti-lockdown sentiment. While Starmer and digital ID's supporters might now be saying "digital ID is all for the greater good", it would make it much easier for a future tyrannical government to link everything together, especially if they abolished cash, and linked everybody's ID to their bank accounts.

I am not suggesting the above will happen, and as I said, those of us against digital ID are not helping our case by screaming "it definitely will happen". But what I think is dangerous is what might happen, what the government are not saying out loud. Starmer might have no intention of doing any of the above, but a future government might, and the infra-structure would already be in place. Democracy is an illusion, and in 2020, the mask not only slipped, but crashed to the floor and shattered. This was a warning to us all.

I like the fact that at the moment, all these things like passports, driving licences, bank accounts are somewhat fragmented, and separate.

I don't see how not having a digital ID would change this. If the future dictator wants to make it legal for the police to do home seaches without a warrant, they will. If they want access to your bank account, they will force banks to do it. I will admit that it will make the process of deleting your information and wiping you off from the earth simpler and quicker but not having an ID won't stop it from happening.

scalt · 09/10/2025 14:41

Rewis · 09/10/2025 14:04

I don't see how not having a digital ID would change this. If the future dictator wants to make it legal for the police to do home seaches without a warrant, they will. If they want access to your bank account, they will force banks to do it. I will admit that it will make the process of deleting your information and wiping you off from the earth simpler and quicker but not having an ID won't stop it from happening.

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Indeed, a ruthless dictator could do exactly that, but we don't want to make it easier for them, by allowing a precedent to be set. What you describe would be shattering the illusion of democracy, abandoning all pretence, and sooner or later, the public would revolt.

By getting us to "agree" to digital ID now, this could be much more insidious. There's an initial bout of public anger, which is happening now; and by the time it actually comes in, that anger would be long dissipated. The more ruthless stuff (allowing govt access to bank accounts, social credit scores, access to your money depends on your carbon footprint etc) would come later, long after the public anger has been forgotten, and whoever does it will say "the public wanted and accepted digital ID". Most of the public would have forgotten that it was sold on the basis of stopping the boats. This is why I think we need to be making our opposition to it clear.

Lots of us thought that when that first lockdown happened, a precedent was well and truly set; and eventually, it could be distorted into "the public consented to it with no resistance, so we could do it again".

TofuEater · 09/10/2025 14:48

scalt · 09/10/2025 07:33

Those you keep saying "but your stuff is stored and accessible by government already" keep missing an important point.

Yes, driving licence/passports/national insurance details etc. are indeed stored by government already. But it is actually quite difficult for another department to access them: it takes time, money, due process, and probably mountains of paperwork. In theory, the government probably can access an individual's bank accounts if they really want to, but they have to follow due process. Those safeguards exist for a good reason. The police can, in theory, seize anybody's computer, but they need a warrant to do so. The covid enquiry eventually forced Boris to surrender his Whatsapp messages, but he fought tooth and nail to try to prevent this (and guess who paid for it?). At the moment, it's fairly difficult for the government to "keep tabs on every individual, whatever they do, wherever they go". And I think that's how it should be.

Those safeguards are fragile. They only exist as long as the government "allows" them to exist. A future unscrupulous government could take them away with a stroke of the pen, manifesto or no manifesto. We saw how easily Boris prorogued Parliament, and how easily they declared lockdown, with no scrutiny. We've seen how easily Trump can dismantle the safeguards that make him accountable to anybody at all: tyrants around the world are watching with interest. We saw how easily the Canadian truckers had their bank accounts stopped. We saw how easily the government could suppress debate, and any anti-lockdown sentiment. While Starmer and digital ID's supporters might now be saying "digital ID is all for the greater good", it would make it much easier for a future tyrannical government to link everything together, especially if they abolished cash, and linked everybody's ID to their bank accounts.

I am not suggesting the above will happen, and as I said, those of us against digital ID are not helping our case by screaming "it definitely will happen". But what I think is dangerous is what might happen, what the government are not saying out loud. Starmer might have no intention of doing any of the above, but a future government might, and the infra-structure would already be in place. Democracy is an illusion, and in 2020, the mask not only slipped, but crashed to the floor and shattered. This was a warning to us all.

I like the fact that at the moment, all these things like passports, driving licences, bank accounts are somewhat fragmented, and separate.

Personal details can be shared across agencies quite easily if it's necessary. One example - during the first COVID lockdown, local authorities were given lists of those in the shielding category as, obviously, they were in the best position to check up on vulnerable people. Not something I have an issue with

EasternStandard · 09/10/2025 16:23

Rewis · 09/10/2025 14:04

I don't see how not having a digital ID would change this. If the future dictator wants to make it legal for the police to do home seaches without a warrant, they will. If they want access to your bank account, they will force banks to do it. I will admit that it will make the process of deleting your information and wiping you off from the earth simpler and quicker but not having an ID won't stop it from happening.

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This sounds like a one off, ie one person. The advances in tech means millions can be scanned, eg you can see it with bank accounts now.

HWDDHOH · 10/10/2025 14:02

summerlovingvibes · 06/10/2025 13:52

I work as a nurse in England.

I just feel absolutely fuming about the digital ID proposals and don't know how to channel my anger??

I very strongly object to this. It makes my blood boil when I think about it and I feel anxious knowing that something like this may be imposed on us all.

It is not going to stop illegal immigration. That line is absolute BS. They're doing it for their own selfish reasons.

What do we do? I don't want to not work, but I am going to refuse to have one. So my employer may sack me?!

It's just ridiculous!

Obviously I've signed the petition, emailed my MP, will join any protests etc.

But practically speaking - will my employer actually sack me for not having one?

lol. get a grip.

NatalieW1907 · 10/10/2025 14:09

After reading your last post I understand. What to do. I have signed a few petitions and their ignored. Keep posting you definitely shouldn't lose your job

Rellzo · 10/10/2025 14:11

NewWin · 06/10/2025 14:03

I'm okay with it. It's like a passport or driver's license. Why are you fuming? Who are 'they' and what are their selfish reasons?

In reality Instagram probably knows more about me than the government ever will, and I haven't deleted Instagram yet... So meh. I suspect a lot are like me. I suspect you also think I'm a sheep though!

So if its just like a passport or drivers license why do we need a digital id?

BIossomtoes · 10/10/2025 14:12

Rellzo · 10/10/2025 14:11

So if its just like a passport or drivers license why do we need a digital id?

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Because not everyone one has a driving licence or passport.

Rellzo · 10/10/2025 14:13

summerlovingvibes · 06/10/2025 13:52

I work as a nurse in England.

I just feel absolutely fuming about the digital ID proposals and don't know how to channel my anger??

I very strongly object to this. It makes my blood boil when I think about it and I feel anxious knowing that something like this may be imposed on us all.

It is not going to stop illegal immigration. That line is absolute BS. They're doing it for their own selfish reasons.

What do we do? I don't want to not work, but I am going to refuse to have one. So my employer may sack me?!

It's just ridiculous!

Obviously I've signed the petition, emailed my MP, will join any protests etc.

But practically speaking - will my employer actually sack me for not having one?

I feel the same as you, I can't understand why others don't see how concerning this is :(

Original poster

summerlovingvibes · 10/10/2025 14:25

@BIossomtoes and yet people still manage to get jobs and work and have done for years. So why do we need one now?! The line from the government about it reducing illegal immigrants from coming is total BS.
As previously discussed lots - it will not deter a single person.

OP posts:

Original poster

summerlovingvibes · 10/10/2025 14:26

@Rellzo I've just said this on an out her thread in response to the age for digital ID being talked about for anyone over the age of 13.

This terrifies me.

I think the thing that people don't understand why people are worried about it is "the slippery slope". This is an exact example. Children age 13 can't properly consent. And their parents shouldn't be consenting for them... because then they get to adult hood they may not consent but by then it's too late and they have a "tag".

Adding things in to the digital ID in the future. A change in government using it differently in the future. An IT "glitch" at a pivotal point and a house sale falling though because of it. Someone was saying the other day how their child benefit had been stopped due to a short trip 18 months ago and passport control mishap where they hadn't registered her as being back in the country... even though she was working and earning in the UK for the last 18 months. If things like this can happen, imagine an IT glitch with ALL your information.
Accidental mis-haps with tax related issues, someone having access to be able to freeze bank accounts etc etc etc. The list goes on.

Yes this is catastrophising, and none of the above may ever happen. But now is the time to do that & question it and push back. Once it happens, it's here to stay. Once we agree there is no going back, and once one thing is added it can't be taken away. Because we are NOT the ones in charge of it all.

OP posts:

AnythingBUTnursing · 10/10/2025 14:41

Who cares. I wouldn't even waste my mental energy on the things out of our control. If it is to happen. It will, regardless of anything. So why give a sh*t. Just roll with it. I dont particularly want one either but I dont spend my time threting over it. Chill 😎

CryMyEyesViolet · 10/10/2025 14:44

summerlovingvibes · 10/10/2025 14:26

@Rellzo I've just said this on an out her thread in response to the age for digital ID being talked about for anyone over the age of 13.

This terrifies me.

I think the thing that people don't understand why people are worried about it is "the slippery slope". This is an exact example. Children age 13 can't properly consent. And their parents shouldn't be consenting for them... because then they get to adult hood they may not consent but by then it's too late and they have a "tag".

Adding things in to the digital ID in the future. A change in government using it differently in the future. An IT "glitch" at a pivotal point and a house sale falling though because of it. Someone was saying the other day how their child benefit had been stopped due to a short trip 18 months ago and passport control mishap where they hadn't registered her as being back in the country... even though she was working and earning in the UK for the last 18 months. If things like this can happen, imagine an IT glitch with ALL your information.
Accidental mis-haps with tax related issues, someone having access to be able to freeze bank accounts etc etc etc. The list goes on.

Yes this is catastrophising, and none of the above may ever happen. But now is the time to do that & question it and push back. Once it happens, it's here to stay. Once we agree there is no going back, and once one thing is added it can't be taken away. Because we are NOT the ones in charge of it all.

Surely the child benefit example is an argument for all that info being linked together? They didn’t know she’d been working and earning in the UK all that time because the records are so disparate. If she’d had one digital ID as you describe they’d have seen that she’d been working and spending in the UK and therefore must have re-entered the country…

Original poster

summerlovingvibes · 10/10/2025 14:57

@CryMyEyesViolet see I'd think of it the other way that if one department ducks like - like passport control - then that fuck up can impact all the other departments. If they were advised she wasn't in the country, what about access to NHS / access to other benefits potentially. When you need to transfer money to someone but a system flags up they aren't in the UK ... even though they are.
What ever else ends up being attached to your digital ID in the future... sorry you can't buy this house or make that bank transfer because you're technically not in the UK.

Who knows, but that's just the kind of thing I can see if one department fucks up it may fuck everything else up.

OP posts:

nodramamama · 10/10/2025 15:01

Genuinely find it curious. Anyone who objects to digital ID, do they also not have bank accounts, or actual passport or driving licence, because 'then the government can track you'?
I would say you'll be ok not getting one, there will be plenty of people objecting on principle too, even if not warranted necessarily. But everyone has the right to object I'm sure.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 10/10/2025 15:03

nodramamama · 10/10/2025 15:01

Genuinely find it curious. Anyone who objects to digital ID, do they also not have bank accounts, or actual passport or driving licence, because 'then the government can track you'?
I would say you'll be ok not getting one, there will be plenty of people objecting on principle too, even if not warranted necessarily. But everyone has the right to object I'm sure.

Yes I have a bank account. No I don’t ai to scan my bank account without good cause.

Yrs i have a passport no I do t want a digital ID

Ita a lie it will solve immigration or illegal working. That’s my main objection. They’re already fudging the truth

nodramamama · 10/10/2025 15:18

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 10/10/2025 15:03

Yes I have a bank account. No I don’t ai to scan my bank account without good cause.

Yrs i have a passport no I do t want a digital ID

Ita a lie it will solve immigration or illegal working. That’s my main objection. They’re already fudging the truth

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Definitely agree the purpose for digital id isn't really about immigration. But it's also not the harbinger of doom it's being made out to be. Everything is digital now, it allows for streamlining. It is like saying digital bank statements are terrible and refusing keeping still to printed, when that's the way things are now for most things. But yeah you can refuse to and demand printed, refuse digital id, refuse online banking. But whether you want it or not, for example HMRC already see your bank account and apps etc.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 10/10/2025 15:25

HMRC / dwp can only look at accounts if they have a valid reason/ suspicion. Not as a matter of routine. Anyone on benefits will be checked. As will those who are linked eg if you pay in birthday money to someone’s account that claims benefits.

if it’s not the truth then what is digital IDs real purpose? Doesnt that make you question it?

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 10/10/2025 15:26

nodramamama · 10/10/2025 15:18

Definitely agree the purpose for digital id isn't really about immigration. But it's also not the harbinger of doom it's being made out to be. Everything is digital now, it allows for streamlining. It is like saying digital bank statements are terrible and refusing keeping still to printed, when that's the way things are now for most things. But yeah you can refuse to and demand printed, refuse digital id, refuse online banking. But whether you want it or not, for example HMRC already see your bank account and apps etc.

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Funnily enough I do refuse on line banking. And I get printed statements. I find it easier to keep track of.

letmebetheone · 10/10/2025 15:31

summerlovingvibes · 06/10/2025 14:07

I have my own reasons for not wanting it and essentially I just don't want to be forced to do something I don't want to do!

I live semi off grid and like my life the way it is.

Eventually everything like bank accounts, social media accounts etc will be linked together. This is the start of a terrible big brother dictatorship state.

What ever people's feelings are on it is fine. If you want one then have one. But if you don't want one then what? Tough shit you just have to have one in order to work?

I have a passport, I have a driving license, I have my NI number. I was born and bred here. I'm entitled to work here. I don't want to have to have something just because someone tells me I have to prove who I am.

This is not the answer to stopping illegal immigration.

So what are others going to do that don't want it?

Obviously I know / will probably go back to a non-smart phone. But that doesn't resolve the issue of if they're actually going to kick me out of my job for not complying and becoming a sheep that does what it's told to do.

Freedom and all that is totally disappearing.

If you think you are living semi-off grid then you are deluded. We cant leave our homes without being on camera within minutes. Giving up your job would be both madness and pointless.

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 10/10/2025 15:41

But that’s not a reason to say ok to digital IDs.

Holycowhowmuch · 10/10/2025 15:50

Tony blairs son owns the company they would use for digital id. Lots of money to be had. Blair wants us tied into his vision of Globalist Europe.. one homogenous blob of people's with no separate cultures ...all drifting around scratching for work. digital id will go on to add health,banking etc etc so you can lose/get pick pocketed/be scammed for everything all at once. Brave new world. Creeping towards globalism/communism my friends or should I say comrades.

EasternStandard · 10/10/2025 15:51

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 10/10/2025 15:03

Yes I have a bank account. No I don’t ai to scan my bank account without good cause.

Yrs i have a passport no I do t want a digital ID

Ita a lie it will solve immigration or illegal working. That’s my main objection. They’re already fudging the truth

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It won’t, it’s more about what’s doable with AI and data use.

BIossomtoes · 10/10/2025 15:52

Holycowhowmuch · 10/10/2025 15:50

Tony blairs son owns the company they would use for digital id. Lots of money to be had. Blair wants us tied into his vision of Globalist Europe.. one homogenous blob of people's with no separate cultures ...all drifting around scratching for work. digital id will go on to add health,banking etc etc so you can lose/get pick pocketed/be scammed for everything all at once. Brave new world. Creeping towards globalism/communism my friends or should I say comrades.

That was debunked some time ago as complete bollocks.

PandoraSocks · 10/10/2025 15:54

Holycowhowmuch · 10/10/2025 15:50

Tony blairs son owns the company they would use for digital id. Lots of money to be had. Blair wants us tied into his vision of Globalist Europe.. one homogenous blob of people's with no separate cultures ...all drifting around scratching for work. digital id will go on to add health,banking etc etc so you can lose/get pick pocketed/be scammed for everything all at once. Brave new world. Creeping towards globalism/communism my friends or should I say comrades.

As BIossomtoes says, complete bollocks.

fullfact.org/technology/digital-id-euan-blair/