Jews leaving the UK

[Ihatetomatoes]

I dont blame them. I would if I were Jewish.

They have been failed by their country, which is the UK. I wish them well and hope the UK can sort its anti semitism problems so it becomes safe for Jewish people again.

That is undeniably true. However, Labour are wholly reliant on (some) MPs are very pro-Palestine. And it is not just MPs, they need to think about voters and marginal seats; Wes Streeting only won Ilford North by just over 500 votes. His main competition was an independent - Leanne Mohamad - pro-Palestine activist.

This is why they do not refer to Hamas as a terrorist organisation. Gosh, even the Home Secretary has been on pro-Palestine marches and demonstrated outside Sainsbury's to boycott them for stocking Israeli made goods.

Why don't you look up some history and answer your own question?

I'll give you a clue-

It wasn't the Allies.

Then you could maybe also look up why Palestinian Arabs didn't declare their own State at the time Israel did? Theres no reason why they couldn't have, yet they didn't.

Perhaps come back after you've read a bit.

My point is why is the creation of Israel the UKs business but how Israel conducts itself towards the gazan citizens isn't the UKs business?

Obviously my original question was rhetorical. I'm sorry you lack the insight to see what I was getting at, I hope this clarifies the point

Anyone can march, but does marching make the blind bit of difference? No. Does it make Jews fearful in their own country? Yes.

You seem to be ok with that.

And my point, which is much more pertinent, is that we should care about how Jewish people are treated in our own country. A fact that seems to be a little bit beyond a lot of posters on this thread.

You know who should first be looking out for Palestinians in Gaza? The government of Gaza. Know who that is?

Your point is clear as mud I'm afraid.

A memorial day for 1700 Jews or 1700 Israelis?

Marching is not necessarily a problem. It's who is marching, and what they're yelling and screaming for. Death to the IDF. Globalise the Intifada. From the river to the Sea. Etc. All antisemitic, hate-filled, murderous and genocidal chants. Flying the flag of Palestine in support of Hamas. You may think you're not supporting Hamas, but by flying their flag and wearing the keffiyah, yes that's exactly what you're doing. You may well be going on your march thinking about poor innocent children. But you are marching alongside people whose stated intention is to eradicate all Jews from the face of the earth. People who cheered for 7th October. They don't care about children. They are a psychotic death cult. Why the hell would any reasonable person associate with them and adopt their slogans and spout their propaganda?

I suggest that you organise your own marches where you can be specific about what you are trying to campaign for. "Ceasefire Now!" for example might be a reasonable thing to yell in the streets. "Globalise the Intifada" - not so much.

I would still think you're ignorant and buying into Hamas propaganda. But at least you wouldn't be showing support for genocidal terrorists.

Noone is advocating for any lack of safety to Jewish people.

Corrected. I didn't mean Jews. I was typing in a hurry. Not all Israelis either. However, it doesn't detract from the point that what is the message being sent by having a protest on that date specifically.

I wonder if what you and @Chiaseedling are seeing on this thread is mostly ignorance rather than hate. Many British people who don't have Jewish friends or know much about Judaism will draw a difference between Jews in Israel and the Israeli government. They are genuine in believing that the two can be separated, so they don't think that criticising Israel's actions against Palestine is anti-Semitic. But for Jewish people, the two are too intertwined to be separated in any meaningful sense, so criticism of the Israeli government is necessarily criticism of Jews and therefore anti-Semitic. Have I got that right? I'd like to be made aware, if not.

A PP said that they are anti-Zionist not anti-Jew, evidently not realising that the vast, vast majority of Jewish people believe in a homeland for Jews - i.e. are Zionist. That the two pretty much go hand in hand. This is a good example of someone simply not understanding, rather than necessarily being anti-Semitic.

Basically, it seems to me from reading this thread - and I could be TOTALLY wrong - but it seems to me that non-Jewish people can easily separate the Israeli state from Jewish citizens, so they don't consider any sympathy for the Palestinians to be anti-Semitic, but for Jewish people, these two things cannot be separated. And therefore any support for Palestine is necessarily anti-Semitic.

I'm just trying to understand this thread and understand each side. Apologies if anything I have written is offensive. If so, it's totally accidental and borne of ignorance, not hate.

I am deeply sorry that any Jewish person has been made to feel unsafe or unwelcome in Britain today.

This is a race to the bottom type of comment though. NOONE should be made to feel unsafe in their home and responding to someone says they feel that way, by saying well so do other people is an argument for nothing.

I feel totally powerless watching what's happening in gaza and want to see an end to that, but I have no interest in causing harm to anyone else in the process of that and neither should you. I don't think anyone can really deny that there has been a rise in more blatant anti semitism in the UK in the last year - it's not unreasonable for people to feel the impact of that and since those people are nothing to do with the Israeli government that needs to be addressed.

But you personally dont mind if some Jewish people feel intimidated by these marches and you think they should just toughen up and realise it's not antisemitic to shout about Globalising the Intifada yes? Did I get it right?

I understand the point you're trying to make but I don't believe hamas to be a democratic enough organisation that I'd trust them to act in the best interests of their people given that they are an extremist group. So I do think it's important that other people do stand up for citizens of gaza who may be unable to do that for themselves at present. Obviously not at the expense of other people, but I think at this point people feel very much at a loss as to what else they can actually do. It's bloody hard to watch.

Are the Jews in the UK responsible for how safe Palestinians in Gaza are?

Thank you for asking actually. I don’t think I can speak for anyone except myself but for me personally I’m super happy for people to protest. Even protests I disagree with. I go to loads of them for issues important to me.

I find the signs and chants ‘globalise the hate fuelled intifada’ to be encouraging suicide bombers and the ‘from the river to the sea’ chant to be saying that israel should just disappear into the sea and the fringe groups spewing hate towards all Jews, irregardless of political stance, to be frightening. I find the swatstikas on lamp posts outside my work after these awful marches to be problematic and my daughter being attacked at school for her religion insanely frightening.

I also think Israel has to exist for me to feel any sort of safety at all. I am a Zionist. But I’m also lots of other things. I don’t agree with everything the British government does either but I still support my country.

I agree its bloody awful to watch.
I just wish there was anti Hamas marches instead of anti Israel ones.

Yes.

At best, marching is performative, much like all the delegates who walked out of the UN when Netanyahu was speaking. Except most were not delegates, many were secretaries and other staff, many from countries that are not democracies and support Islam/are Muslim, some of whom support radical Islam and Hamas and want Israel and Jews wiped from the face of the earth.

How is pp’s comment low standard?

They do, it’s called Palestine, just like the Jews do, it’s called Israel. Different cultures, religions and races have lived in that area for thousands of years. There will never be imo a definitive answer of who it belongs to (Ideally everyone on Earth would live where ever they wan’t in peace)

If somebody said the Jews never had a “homeland” they would be ripped to shreds on here. You can say Jews were there before Palestinians, but who was there before the Jews, it goes on and on. The 2 countries both have a right to exist but PEACEFULLY

I think this is quite a fair point and I think for me, I've avoided so far the marches for this reason as I want to see both sides held to account and willing to work to a ceasefire, release of hostages and working actively towards a plan for co existence and I don't believe hamas are ready to accept that just yet. I think the difficulty (as with any civil war where land and heritage is disputed in this way and there'sinter generational trauma) is that its still so raw and the trauma created here will take many years to heal under two committed governments which i don't think we currently have.

I think there's a perception (to my eyes anyway and perhaps incorrectly) that Hamas are out gunned and are therefore presenting as the 'under dogs' in the current situation, plus the difference in scale of civilian casualties in comparison to the Israeli gov which is why I think they are currently catching more heat and accountability. But absolutely both need to be challenged and there can't be only one 'victor' in this or it will never end. My worry is that the Israeli governments current actions will have driven Hamas re recruitment up and will end up creating a vacuum where extremism will rise, possibly shooting themselves in the foot for years to come.

I have definitely got some good food for thought from this thread so thanks to all those who've participated from various sides of the debate. I think especially with the rise in AI and how we use social media now it's very hard to tell what's real and accurate amidst the bombardment of information on this topic.

Sorry, but if people can’t distinguish between the state (and its government) and Jewish people, that’s a ‘them’ problem.
Lots and lots of Jews do not agree with (and condemn) what Netanyahu and the IDF are doing in Gaza.

Can I also ask if anyone thinks the protests and Marches for Unite the Flag (Tommy Robinson one - not sure of the name) should be banned because british people from the Black, Asian and Arab communities are also feeling intimidated or are those okay?

Talk about tone deaf.
Do you just not consider anti Semitism to be ‘real racism’ or something?

I am so sorry that this is happening. Is there anything that ordinary non Jewish people like me can do?

How often are those marches happening?