A double one on Rugby

[JamieCannister]

AIBU to say that Mumsnet is putting girls at risk by allowing the promotion on rugby on this site?

AIBU to say that given the risks of head injuries children under 18 (or maybe people with not-yet-fully-developed brains under 25) should not be allowed to consent to play contact rugby?

Do bore off.

Errm, no.

YABU OP on 2 levels and showing that you have very little knowledge in what is being done on world rugby and youth level rugby to make big reductions in head injuries including reducing the tackle height.

I wouldn't let my child play it. But I guess everyone has different priorities.

Have headers been banned in youth football now?

The MND links are worrying too. Although I know there are links to other causes eg pesticides so I guess it could be linked to chemicals used to treat the pitches as much as it could be to repeated head trauma.

We have someone local to us who is a retired professional footballer with severe dementia now. Every now and then we have to help him find his way home.

My kids have played rugby for 12 years. Not a single head injury. I think the club has only had 1 or 2 head injuries in any of the youth teams over the time my kids have been playing.

It’s changed. There are lots of new rules around tackling and it is very enforced.

Don’t be daft. It’s a great game and has many positives to outweigh the risk of injury. Theres such an amazing community behind rugby, there’s a place for everyone be you tall and fast or chunky and strong. It’s so positive for women who don’t fit the mould. ND kids are over represented at the club too. Why would you want to take that away?

Don’t forget to also ban crossing the road … just in case!

100 % unreasonable

The 'Headcase' scheme is VERY strict on head injury recovery.

My kids are annoyed by it, but absolutely understand why it's in place!

So, no, don't be daft !

I work in neuroscience and have colleagues who study head injuries and brain function in athletes. There is no way I’d let my kids do any contact sport with high risk of collision. Including boxing, rugby, headers in football etc. it is not just the big injuries that are a problem. Lots of smaller head collisions can still add up to have effects on the brain.

yanbu

Dead right OP. Instead you should make them sit on a couch watching tv, or playing on a PlayStation or computer. Or, if you believe these are bad for them, then just make them sit and stare at the wall.

It’s all about risk. There’s virtually nothing in life risk free, trust me, I’ve seen pretty much enough to confidently say that. I believe they have modified rules in the junior sport to alleviate most of this risk. However, they could be running along, trip over their own feet, fall down with a direct head injury in the wrong place and die, seen a few of these over the decades. So, maybe they could just walk while they play and same for all other sports and people who jog/run🤣. Also, do t walk on pavements, I’ve had a few of these hit and killed by drivers who took their eyes off road/lost control. And a million other things.

The risks are much more about playing long term - my concern is not so much kids getting head injuries or cauing themselves long term harm, but rather -

(1) If you aren't going to take rugby seriously then there are lots of other sports one could play (including 5 a side football if you have concerns about heading in 11 a side football).

(2) If you are going to take it seriously you may play for decades and are at much increased risk of the most serious conditions which massively reduce life-span.

I do not understand why someone would say "rugby was dangerous, but it's all cool now"... I completely believe it is getting safer but that is very different from saying that it is safe or the risk are acceptable (when compared to the alternative - not playing rugby, which is literally no skin off anyone's nose give how many other sports exist).

You might as well say "bore off, I fell off my motorbike twice when I was younger and I was fine both times... no idea why you're worried that your son rides off at 90 mph on his ultra fast sports bike every sunday morning".

Hockey and cricket do not have the same issues with people taking repeated heavy head impacts.

Football - as I understand - massively discourages heading in training nowadays, and if I understand correctly the evidence of long term damage seems to relate to the players who were heading a very heavy wet ball in the 50s, 60s, 70s, and nowadays balls are much much lighter and waterproof so don't. Google AI suggest an old football was half a kilo and could reach up to 3 kilos when wet (I doubt it was that much, but they got a lot heavier I am sure). Modern balls simply do not gain significant weight.

Saying all of that, there is a strong argument that if you're not taking it seriously (forging a pro career) it makes sense to avoid all sports (including the three you mention) that have some risk of instant death due to a very hard ball flying at very fast speed (cricket and hockey) or long term damage (football).

I am sure we can both list all sorts of sports and outdoor activities which do not present the same risks.

Getting killed in a car crash or as a pedestrian can be mitigated to a large extent, but the difference is that giving up going anywhere is infinitely harder easier than giving up playing one sport out of dozens.

If I had a child who really really wanted to play rugby but hated all other sports then I might consent as a last resort.

I am sure we can both list all sorts of sports and outdoor activities which do not present the same risks

The nastiest injury mine have suffered was from one playing a non-contact sport. Surgeries, ongoing orthopaedic specialty care for the better part of a year. So, none of this is foolproof.

Rugby has got much stricter about head contact and head injuries. but it’s probably come much too late. Just heard this morning Lewis moody (England international player) has been diagnosed with MND.

I got bad concussion after falling off a chair.

Theres risks everywhere in life. A sport which takes injury seriously is better than outright banning things and not teaching how to be safe.

What we now know about The risks from repeated head injuries in football as well as rugby and boxing would make me deter any child of mine from participating

how we keep such sports and reduce the risk to more acceptable levels I don’t know ?

Was it an injury that can lead to something like motor neurone disease (Rob Burrow, diagnosed at 37, dead at 41)?

I posted this thread in response to being sick of seeing mumsnet promoting rugby for months on end, and then seeing the Moody story today

I am not saying I have the answers. But my starting point is that I would never encourage a kid of mine to play rugby, box, ride a motorbike, take up base jumping, take up extreme climbing or take up any of the Red Bull extreme sports where young men are doing massive quadruple backflips off insane ramps.

If I had a kid who really really really wanted to do one or two of these things then there's a problem - maybe allowing is the lesser of two evils, but to actively encourage is just wrong. Deeply wrong.

If I were even more cautious I'd add football to the list.

Have headers been banned in youth football now?

Yes. Certainly for up to U10, no idea when it changes though.

Do you fall off a chair every single week year in year out, ending up dead at 40 due to cumulative damage? There is no comparison

My daughter started rugby last year. She now plays u10 with the boys as well as on the girls team. I can’t even tell you how much it’s increased her confidence. She’s strong, happy and fierce. She plays contact but no head injuries so far. Definitely fewer injuries than her football playing older brother.

both my kids do boxing too so you’d probably be horrified by me