Page 3 | A double one on Rugby

JamieCannister · 2025-10-06T08:03:44+00:00

AIBU to say that Mumsnet is putting girls at risk by allowing the promotion on rugby on this site? AIBU to say that given the risks of head injuries children under 18 (or maybe people with not-yet-fully-developed brains under 25) should not be allowed to consent to play contact rugby?

TheLemonPeach · 06/10/2025 12:44

Rugby is especially inclusive because it welcomes all body types and has various roles who need various strengths.

It's a lot less damaging that gymnastics or ballet (just as an example) who famously badly damaged mental health of so many girls with the effect we know.

You don't have to like rugby, but you are ridiculous to demand a ban. Just don't put your kids in a school where it's part of the curriculum.

xSideshowAuntSallyXx · 06/10/2025 12:45

Ooogle · 06/10/2025 12:41

That’s quite the leap. No I am not like a mother of a trans child? my daughter isn’t trans because she plays rugby.

the team is mixed and she is the only girl. The boys aren’t ‘forced’ to play with her. She’s allowed to play mixed until she’s in high school. Their physical stature at the age of 9 is very similar. The boys are her friends and they don’t treat her any differently- they’re clearly way more accepting than you are.

my daughter also plays netball and dances.

i am not letting her down massively for letting her play a sport she loves. I doubt she’s going to become a professional rugby player. The children play together safely and with a lot of supervision. She’s happy and safe and loves it and will continue to be allowed to go.

how odd you would link a little girl playing rugby with her friends to being a trans child. That’s a really sad attitude to have.

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If I could heart this I would. How they came to the conclusion your daughter was trans just because she plays rugby i don't know (and it's really weird to assume that).

She must think the whole of the Red Rose's are trans as well (nevermind that some are married with kids).

SpottyAardvark · 06/10/2025 12:56

The physical & psychological risks of children growing up sedentary, unfit, screen-obsessed, socially isolated & obese are FAR greater than the risks of them playing team sports, including those which involve contact.

Rugby has cracked down on head contact at all levels in recent years, with major changes to tackling laws. The changes were much needed & long overdue, but they have now been made. Of course it still involves some level of risk but so does anything. Including inactivity.

Ooogle · 06/10/2025 12:58

xSideshowAuntSallyXx · 06/10/2025 12:45

If I could heart this I would. How they came to the conclusion your daughter was trans just because she plays rugby i don't know (and it's really weird to assume that).

She must think the whole of the Red Rose's are trans as well (nevermind that some are married with kids).

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Thank you! I know- such a bizarre attitude and a damaging one too! I was astonished by the leap!

Tigerbalmshark · 06/10/2025 13:01

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 10:58

I think promoting rugby for months on end when it kills is F-ING EVIL. I believe my thread is the very opposite of insensitive and in bad taste. Moody's diagnosis is precisely why I have posted this after months of getting angry seeing mumsnet promote a sport which kills.

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Whereas saying that girls who play football and rugby on mixed teams aren’t REAL girls and must actually be trans is perfectly fine…

Original poster

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:20

Pharazon · 06/10/2025 11:07

The riskiest sport, by far, for young people to be involved in is equestrian sport. And yet we never get these sort of hand-wringing posts about eventing.

I am quite happy to say I would never ever ever encourage a child of mine to get anywhere near a horse.

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AllJoyAndNoFun · 06/10/2025 13:21

My DC (DS and DD) both play and have since they were 4- now in U15/U14. I agree it's not without risks but at population level I think the worst in behind us in terms of longer term injuries from the sport because (i) fewer people play (ii) massive reduction in how many contact minutes are allowed in training all the way through to pro level, (iii) changes to tackling rules that prevent dump tackling and neck issues (iv) much stricter application of concussion recovery protocols and (v) shorter playing "careers" in general - I read recently that the number of men in their late thirties/forties who still play recreationally has fallen considerably. That will be somewhat be offset by the way that male professional rugby is played (player size has increased hugely, men's rugby is more forwards dominated than it was) but pro rugby is not gonna be something my DS is going to get close to so not a personal concern. Therefore my expectation would be that the kids who are currently roughly between 8-21 will have much lower impacts that those who are older than that now

There are also so many positives, some of which are obviously also present in other sports but I do think rugby has an inclusivity and a nicer vibe than some others and I agree with PP that for teenage girls this can be extremely positive. A lot of the girls who have joined DD's club have really found their tribe there and they have such a brilliant time.

Neither has had concussion from rugby but, just for the sake of anecdata:

Times DS has got concussion - playing hockey and accidentally collided with the keeper (basically got head butted), got a cricket ball to the face because not concentrating while fielding, got elbowed in the temple playing "park" football with his mates.

Times DD got concussion - hit round head with boom while sailing, whacked herself on the head with her snowboard while getting it off the roof of the car (had obviously been told three times not to attempt this).

TheLemonPeach · 06/10/2025 13:22

Ooogle · 06/10/2025 12:58

Thank you! I know- such a bizarre attitude and a damaging one too! I was astonished by the leap!

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literally the reason why MN and others are promoting rugby, to fight against these.. attitude.

Clearly needed!

Original poster

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:23

1dayatatime · 06/10/2025 11:47

But MND is correlated to all types of athletes, football players, athletics and obsessive gym goers.

And on that basis the promotion of all sports, athletics and gym going is "f'ing evil."

"The MND Association acknowledges there is a "correlation" between contact sports and MND. It added that while the athletes studied were more likely to develop MND, it did not show the sports directly caused the condition."

The reality as with all things including exercise is "everything in moderation".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57431412?app-referrer=deep-link

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The problem is that some kids will be really good, they'll end up competing at serious amateur or even pro level for decades and by the end of their career they will not have done rugby in moderation.

The risk to kids who give it up at 14 is fairly small (but even then you get broken backs)

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Original poster

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:24

MrsAvocet · 06/10/2025 11:55

I'm not sure that there's currently sufficient evidence to support the kind of restrictions you're suggesting OP but I do understand your concerns and I certainly didn't encourage my DC to play any more rugby beyond that which was mandatory at school. (Or an other sports where repeated head injury is a feature come to that. I would never have allowed them to do boxing under any circumstances.)
Obviously there are risks in all sports. I sail and have been concussed after being bashed on the head by the boom. All my DC also do or have done sports that carry a risk of acute injury. And freak accidents can and do occur in all walks of life. We cannot live risk free lives and attempting to do so would be totally miserable. But the difference is that whilst I know every time I go sailing I could get hit on the head by the boom, and every time my DS plays hockey he could be brain injured by a stick or ball most times that won't happen. But when you play rugby you know that you will be making repeated vigorous physical contact with other people as that* *is an intrinsic part of the sport.

I agree that rugby, and sport in general, has made big strides in the recognition and management of brain injuries. I think that just about every sport's governing body in this country has a concussion protocol now which is excellent. But that only gets triggered once a player is showing some signs of a brain injury. What it doesn't address is the cumulative effect of repeated micro trauma. Some sports, rugby included, involve a lot of bashing of heads which don't manifest as an actual brain injury at the time but the repeated effect may well be damaging over time. It's that which I think is still a big worry and I hope we'll find out a lot more in the coming years.
That's the difference between contact sports like rugby and a lot of the other situations people are mentioning. Yes, you might get a significant brain injury if you fall off your bike, crash your car, slip down the stairs etc but on all the occasions that you do those things and don't have an accident you suffer zero trauma to your brain. But the nature of some sports means that not only is acute brain injury is more likely than in others but also repeated micro trauma is pretty much inevitable. The potential effect of all those low level impacts concerns me a lot. Obviously there are lots of physical and mental benefits to participation in sport too and you have to weigh those against the risks. But my personal opinion is that there are lots of great sports and activities that you can do that don't have that particular risk (though of course they all have some) so I encouraged my own children in different directions. But that is my personal view and whilst I'd encourage people to think about it I wouldn't go as far as saying that nobody should allow their children to play rugby - I don't think there's currently enough evidence for that.

Great post

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TheLemonPeach · 06/10/2025 13:25

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:20

I am quite happy to say I would never ever ever encourage a child of mine to get anywhere near a horse.

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I hope you are homeschooling, because the most dangerous environment I have ever witnessed is the school run and parents driving and parking like lunatics. Made even worst with SUV and little children.

It's a daily miracle we don't have more casualties across the country.

TheLemonPeach · 06/10/2025 13:26

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:20

I am quite happy to say I would never ever ever encourage a child of mine to get anywhere near a horse.

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WHAT are your own children allowed to do exactly? out of curiosity?

Original poster

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:26

user1476613140 · 06/10/2025 12:02

I have another two older DC who participate in fencing which is low contact. They are not interested in contact sports like rugby

As long as risks are discussed I don't see a problem.

I don't see why kids should be more able to consent to playing sports which risk serious brain injury and early death any more than they can consent to sex or tattoos or being transitioned

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Original poster

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:29

xSideshowAuntSallyXx · 06/10/2025 12:31

I stand by what I said. It is poor taste to use Lewis Moody's MND diagnosis for your own personal crusade.

Many of these players Rob Burrow, Doddie Weir and now Lewis Moody all played rugby long before all the research into concussion and head injuries. The sport and science has changed since they played, they are no longer allowed to continue to play if they get a head injury, high tackles are a red card.

Use it to bring awareness to MND but to use it because you don't like something is in poor taste.

P.S cars kill shall we ban them as well?

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Do you not see the way that "no cars" would impact society in infinitely more negative ways that not allowing young perople to take up rugby until aged 18 or 25?

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TheLemonPeach · 06/10/2025 13:30

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:26

I don't see why kids should be more able to consent to playing sports which risk serious brain injury and early death any more than they can consent to sex or tattoos or being transitioned

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You win the medal for the most ridiculous post on MN this week

PaellaPan · 06/10/2025 13:35

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:29

Do you not see the way that "no cars" would impact society in infinitely more negative ways that not allowing young perople to take up rugby until aged 18 or 25?

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no cars, they probably wouldn't be able to get to rugby training anyway. And air quality would be substantially improved. A substantial reduction in car use would probably do far more for overall public health than stopping rugby, which only a small proportion of people ever play. And an even smaller proportion of them play vigorously, frequently enough and over enough years for it to be of any tangible risk.

AllJoyAndNoFun · 06/10/2025 13:38

PaellaPan · 06/10/2025 13:35

no cars, they probably wouldn't be able to get to rugby training anyway. And air quality would be substantially improved. A substantial reduction in car use would probably do far more for overall public health than stopping rugby, which only a small proportion of people ever play. And an even smaller proportion of them play vigorously, frequently enough and over enough years for it to be of any tangible risk.

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I just looked this up OOI and of 1 milion registered male players (total) only 121,000 are actually adults (over 18) so barely anyone carries on for "decades and decades". It's tiny numbers.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 06/10/2025 13:39

indoorplantqueen · 06/10/2025 09:52

Rugby has got much stricter about head contact and head injuries. but it’s probably come much too late. Just heard this morning Lewis moody (England international player) has been diagnosed with MND.

He was one of of my favourite players back in the day and I'm so sad for him. Hearing him say about having to break the news to his mum (as an only child) was devastating.

Scottishskifun · 06/10/2025 13:42

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:20

I am quite happy to say I would never ever ever encourage a child of mine to get anywhere near a horse.

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What sport would you allow your DC to do OP....is tiddlywinks acceptable?!

So far you've ruled out a fair few sports I'm starting to wonder if you allow your children to do any sport....

I mean pretty much every sport comes with an injury risk somewhere....swimming - risk of drowning, dance - risk of broken ankles/damaged ligaments and knees, gymnastics- back, neck, arm and leg injury potential. Trampolining - more of the same as gymnastics.

Original poster

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:44

TheLemonPeach · 06/10/2025 13:26

WHAT are your own children allowed to do exactly? out of curiosity?

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Anything they want, because ours are very cautious - if anything it would be good if they took more risks.

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bittertwisted · 06/10/2025 13:46

I don’t own my children, this ‘I wouldn’t encourage’ attitude is baffling. My eldest DS competes in MMA. He is autistic and it has helped massively with his ability to control impulse and aggression.
he also trains for 4 hours a day

i believe the most dangerous risk to young minds is screen addiction

Original poster

JamieCannister · 06/10/2025 13:47

TheLemonPeach · 06/10/2025 12:44

Rugby is especially inclusive because it welcomes all body types and has various roles who need various strengths.

It's a lot less damaging that gymnastics or ballet (just as an example) who famously badly damaged mental health of so many girls with the effect we know.

You don't have to like rugby, but you are ridiculous to demand a ban. Just don't put your kids in a school where it's part of the curriculum.

It's not inclusive of kids who don't like getting dirty or hate contact sports.

Which is no big deal - not everything has to be inclusive of everyone, so long as the partici[pants are fully aware (and old enough to be aware) of the risks. ANd even then there are some limits society places.

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xSideshowAuntSallyXx · 06/10/2025 13:48

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 06/10/2025 13:39

He was one of of my favourite players back in the day and I'm so sad for him. Hearing him say about having to break the news to his mum (as an only child) was devastating.

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He was one of mine too, his mop of blonde hair always made him stand out.

padronpepper · 06/10/2025 13:51

My neighbour's 14 year old son has been suffering with severe tinnitus since a head injury playing rugby 2 years ago.
Her younger boys will never set foot on a rugby pitch if she has anything to do with it.

Trickabrick · 06/10/2025 13:52

Scottishskifun · 06/10/2025 13:42

What sport would you allow your DC to do OP....is tiddlywinks acceptable?!

So far you've ruled out a fair few sports I'm starting to wonder if you allow your children to do any sport....

I mean pretty much every sport comes with an injury risk somewhere....swimming - risk of drowning, dance - risk of broken ankles/damaged ligaments and knees, gymnastics- back, neck, arm and leg injury potential. Trampolining - more of the same as gymnastics.

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Tut tut, don’t you know the tiddlywinks is a choking hazard? What if one of the little plastic circles bounced up into a child’s mouth? Or the risks of repetitive strain injury from repeated finger use? 😱