Page 18 | 11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 04/10/2025 12:15

seaelephant · 04/10/2025 12:11

It is a huge issue though. The state pension is by far the benefit that costs the taxpayer the most money. If you have double the number of pensioners to working people paying in, then taxes are going to have to skyrocket to accomodate. Either that or the state pension is dropped entirely or raised to such a high number that most will never recieve it. Not to mention the enormous burden of an aging population on the NHS without young people to fill the positions as doctors and nurses. Care homes currently staffed mostly by immigrants will be on their knees. I don't think we can even fathom just how bad things can get - it's not that the population is larger, it's that the majority will be old, not paying taxes and draining public services.

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But we have lots of youngsters leaving medical school not able to get jobs. So that doesn’t ring true.Maybe some of the money we spend of undocumented immigrants can go towards the elderly. Changing the works environment so some people can continue working longer. Addressing the shit show that are retirement apartments would help free up larger houses

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 12:18

seaelephant · 04/10/2025 12:11

It is a huge issue though. The state pension is by far the benefit that costs the taxpayer the most money. If you have double the number of pensioners to working people paying in, then taxes are going to have to skyrocket to accomodate. Either that or the state pension is dropped entirely or raised to such a high number that most will never recieve it. Not to mention the enormous burden of an aging population on the NHS without young people to fill the positions as doctors and nurses. Care homes currently staffed mostly by immigrants will be on their knees. I don't think we can even fathom just how bad things can get - it's not that the population is larger, it's that the majority will be old, not paying taxes and draining public services.

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It’s not ‘by far’. The rest of the welfare state is now roughly equal to pensions when put together.

OP posts:

FOJN · 04/10/2025 12:20

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 08:40

Sorry, it’s another immigration one.

I always see immigration discussed in terms of race, religion, who may or may not be a good fit for the UK, whether it’s by small boats - to be honest, this is not the biggest worry for me.

The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate. We are now 8th in Europe for population density - only behind Belgium and the Netherlands, and a handful of places like Vatican City and the Channel Islands. At present we have net migration of around 500,000 a year.

I’m worried that the key issues of overpopulation are being overlooked to make this conversation all about race. What about our pollution levels, wildlife habitats, flood risk, food security, infrastructure? Will this eventually be a polluted city state country? It seems to be heading that way.

Posters always say we need immigration, but we have already welcome 11 million since 2000. If that still isn’t enough; what is? Or do we just keep going?

England is more densely populated than Belgium and the Netherlands. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are much less densely populated which makes the UK population density lower. England has also seen the biggest population increase in both absolute numbers and as a percentage.

I'm concerned about the rate of increase, lack of infrastructure and failure to develop infrastructure at the rate required as well as preservation of farmland and the effects of AI on job availability.

Acres of green fields are not sitting empty just waiting for us to get over an aversion to building houses. The cows that provide the milk for your morning coffee graze on that land.

Some people choose city living because it suits the stage of life they are at or they love the amenities available to them and some of us choose to live in the arse end of nowhere because we are happy to sacrifice convenience for peace and quiet. I like to be able to walk my dog in the countryside without getting in the car so I'd rather we didn't just keep developing without having a plan for how we will feed everyone and keep them employed.

I'm far less concerned about where people are coming from than about sustaining the rate of population growth. Controlling immigration is one of the few, if not the only, way of controlling the rate of population growth. If you find a way to renegotiate our borders with the sea, let me know.

seaelephant · 04/10/2025 12:22

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 12:18

It’s not ‘by far’. The rest of the welfare state is now roughly equal to pensions when put together.

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Well yes - 42% of our welfare spend is on pensions. Next is disibility which is 11%. So yes, it is 'by far'.

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 12:22

FOJN · 04/10/2025 12:20

England is more densely populated than Belgium and the Netherlands. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are much less densely populated which makes the UK population density lower. England has also seen the biggest population increase in both absolute numbers and as a percentage.

I'm concerned about the rate of increase, lack of infrastructure and failure to develop infrastructure at the rate required as well as preservation of farmland and the effects of AI on job availability.

Acres of green fields are not sitting empty just waiting for us to get over an aversion to building houses. The cows that provide the milk for your morning coffee graze on that land.

Some people choose city living because it suits the stage of life they are at or they love the amenities available to them and some of us choose to live in the arse end of nowhere because we are happy to sacrifice convenience for peace and quiet. I like to be able to walk my dog in the countryside without getting in the car so I'd rather we didn't just keep developing without having a plan for how we will feed everyone and keep them employed.

I'm far less concerned about where people are coming from than about sustaining the rate of population growth. Controlling immigration is one of the few, if not the only, way of controlling the rate of population growth. If you find a way to renegotiate our borders with the sea, let me know.

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Without the smaller ones mentioned in the op does that put England at the top?

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 12:25

FOJN · 04/10/2025 12:20

England is more densely populated than Belgium and the Netherlands. Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are much less densely populated which makes the UK population density lower. England has also seen the biggest population increase in both absolute numbers and as a percentage.

I'm concerned about the rate of increase, lack of infrastructure and failure to develop infrastructure at the rate required as well as preservation of farmland and the effects of AI on job availability.

Acres of green fields are not sitting empty just waiting for us to get over an aversion to building houses. The cows that provide the milk for your morning coffee graze on that land.

Some people choose city living because it suits the stage of life they are at or they love the amenities available to them and some of us choose to live in the arse end of nowhere because we are happy to sacrifice convenience for peace and quiet. I like to be able to walk my dog in the countryside without getting in the car so I'd rather we didn't just keep developing without having a plan for how we will feed everyone and keep them employed.

I'm far less concerned about where people are coming from than about sustaining the rate of population growth. Controlling immigration is one of the few, if not the only, way of controlling the rate of population growth. If you find a way to renegotiate our borders with the sea, let me know.

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Absolutely. I think some people in Scotland think their more relaxed feelings about immigration are due to being somehow inherently more sanguine, but clearly it’s because they don’t have the population density we do. I expect their feelings will change as they’re forced to develop more and more land up there.

OP posts:

nomas · 04/10/2025 12:29

Jade3450 · 04/10/2025 11:51

https://www.statista.com/statistics/283287/net-migration-figures-of-the-united-kingdom-y-on-y/

Maybe this format is easier for people to digest.

If you add up the net migration, it totals 6.6m.

Where on earth did you get 11 million from?

sussexman · 04/10/2025 12:30

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 12:22

Without the smaller ones mentioned in the op does that put England at the top?

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Ahead of Belgium, behind the Netherlands. 91% of the land in England is not developed (www.gov.uk/government/statistics/land-use-in-england-2022/land-use-statistics-england-2022#land-use-in-england), so we may be near the top of the list in Europe, but we are hardly overpopulated.

nomas · 04/10/2025 12:30

Jade3450 · 04/10/2025 11:49

You don’t need to add it up! Do you know how to read a graph? Just look at it and you will see that 11m is roughly accurate.

Oh, and the link to the population figures was posted up thread.

Still waiting for your link :)

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I was referring to the last 11 million made up thread, in which I googled and posted the below.

11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

Lua · 04/10/2025 12:31

If your argument is about populations size..... are you willing to limit the number of children per family? Do you support the benefit cap? Do you support people should choose to have an abortion?

Just wondering.... or is this another anti immigration disguised thread?

ilovesooty · 04/10/2025 12:33

PinkFrogss · 04/10/2025 09:50

OP won’t reply properly to posts that don’t fit their narrative - including ones where they have been incorrect. I kindly took the time to explain that more births than deaths would lead to a population increase, but I guess that didn’t fit with OP’s narrative either.

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I see that the OP told me to engage with the thread but hasn't answered the question I asked.

FOJN · 04/10/2025 12:34

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 12:22

Without the smaller ones mentioned in the op does that put England at the top?

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Turkey is listed above us but it's only for the European portion of Turkey and I don't know what the distribution is like across the whole country.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_and_population_of_European_countries

ilovesooty · 04/10/2025 12:34

seaelephant · 04/10/2025 12:22

Well yes - 42% of our welfare spend is on pensions. Next is disibility which is 11%. So yes, it is 'by far'.

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It's over 50% if you count pension related benefits.

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 12:37

ilovesooty · 04/10/2025 12:33

I see that the OP told me to engage with the thread but hasn't answered the question I asked.

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Well there have been hundreds of responses to expecting me to reply to everyone is unrealistic. I’ll answer it now, what is it?

OP posts:

thedramaQueen · 04/10/2025 12:37

Havanananana · 04/10/2025 11:45

Farage and his Brexit Party claimed that all of the UK's problems were caused by the evil, unelected EU - and that as soon as the UK left everything would be wonderful. Turned out he was talking utter shite and not only has leaving the EU cost the country and estimated £100bn a year (that's one hundred thousand million pounds a year) but it also took the UK out of the Dublin Agreement; the Agreement that enabled the UK to return asylum seekers to other countries.

Now Farage has had to find another group to scapegoat, so his focus has turned towards "immigrants" who are now all suddenly to blame for the UK's ills. Note, he doesn't mean all immigrants as he quite likes some immigrants - such as the first Mrs Farage, or the second Mrs Farage, or his latest squeeze (the French waitress who owns the £800k house in Clacton that he falsely claimed to have purchased).

If he somehow does manage to fool 30% of the electorate and end up being elected, he'll very quickly need to find another group to blame as the UK economy tanks, so he'll turn his attention to the people he will define as the "scroungers" who will see their benefits cut, their economic safety net removed and the public services on which they depend either de-funded and trashed or sold off to the highest bidders.

All of which is a smokescreen - a distraction from the mismanagement that all of the major parties have been guilty of over the last 50 years. Lack of investment in public services; vital utilities and infrastructure sold off to foreign investors who have milked the customers while failing to invest; a myopic belief that the free market will provide (it won't - it only provides what is most profitable, not what is most necessary).

This 100%

TwistyTurnip · 04/10/2025 12:38

nomas · 04/10/2025 12:29

If you add up the net migration, it totals 6.6m.

Where on earth did you get 11 million from?

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6.6m is still a huge number. And someone shared a chart earlier which clearly shows a sharp increase in the trend over time. Who knows how many more will arrive in the next 25 years. I’m thinking it will be a lot more than 6.6m if the trend continues.

FOJN · 04/10/2025 12:38

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 12:25

Absolutely. I think some people in Scotland think their more relaxed feelings about immigration are due to being somehow inherently more sanguine, but clearly it’s because they don’t have the population density we do. I expect their feelings will change as they’re forced to develop more and more land up there.

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England 438 people per square kilometer, Scotland 65 - 70 people per square kilometer. I think it's fair to say less of Scotland's land could easily be built on which explains the over all lower population density.

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 12:38

Saying ‘Farage’ doesn’t change our overpopulation. I don’t even like him and would happily concede he’s a contributing factor or whatever, but how does that change the issue at hand?

OP posts:

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 12:42

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 12:38

Saying ‘Farage’ doesn’t change our overpopulation. I don’t even like him and would happily concede he’s a contributing factor or whatever, but how does that change the issue at hand?

It’s about the population and what should happen.

OonaStubbs · 04/10/2025 12:42

The population of this country should be much lower than it is.

Northerngirl821 · 04/10/2025 12:45

The figure of 11 million is wrong. The UK natural population growth is not forecast to become negative until the mid 2030s and there continues to be population growth due to births exceeding deaths. OP is falsely claiming that ALL population growth since 2000 (the 11 million figure) is due to net migration. This is factually incorrect.

Source for graph: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-uks-changing-population/

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 12:47

Jade3450 · 04/10/2025 11:25

Do you have a link for the 2.5 million statistic please? If OP has to provide one then so do you.

Did you look at the data posted above?

Why don’t you believe it?

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I don't understand anyone can believe that given net mitragation was 900k in 2023 and 400k in 2024 that in the 22 years from 2000 to 2022 there was only another 1.2m people - averaging 55,000 people a year?

Pinkfluffypencilcase · 04/10/2025 12:48

alwayscrashinginthesamecar1 · 04/10/2025 08:57

Why would anyone from Australia go too the UK for healthcare? I've lived in both countries, healthcare in Oz is better.

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I’ve heard of this happening too. Friends who return for free nhs treatment.

FlowerUser · 04/10/2025 12:51

Barely 10% of our country is built on. Including roads and motorways. We're not overpopulated, we're under-built.

We need to build more towns and communities.

And a greater population adds money to taxation and to the intangible cultural value.

Last time I checked migration contributed more to our society than it took in benefits.

And if we build more the next generation might be able to find somewhere to live.

sussexman · 04/10/2025 12:52

nomas · 04/10/2025 12:30

I was referring to the last 11 million made up thread, in which I googled and posted the below.

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An 11 million increase in population is broadly accurate. That increase comes in part from net migration, which has been positive this century, but also from people living longer. There are 4 million more people over 65 than there were in 2000; by and large, these are not immigrants. They are also getting much more generous welfare than they were in 2000.