To think I maybe just have to lower my expectations and realise that DH will never change?

[confusedlots]

Numerous conversations about similar issues have been had over the past few years, but it’s clear DH never thinks he’s done anything wrong, and usually turns the conversation around to being about me nagging him, and we never get anywhere.

Dirty plates left on the worktop right on top of the dishwasher (why not just put them in the dishwasher?). On the odd occasion he might empty the dishwasher he leaves half of the clean plates on the worktop instead of putting them away in the cupboards which are right beside him.

Empty milk cartons left on the worktop instead of being rinsed out and put in the recycling bin.

He took DS out recently and they ended up getting soaked heading back to the car. They came home, DH got dried and changed and made himself a cup of tea and sat down. I was sorting laundry and just asked where DS was and he had left him in dripping wet clothes to play in his room and hadn’t thought that he should maybe make sure he got changed into something dry. DS is 7.

DH takes the kids to breakfast club 1 day a week (after I insisted on this) but this still involved me sorting out the uniforms, lunches, getting kids and myself ready etc. DH just got up and showered, had his breakfast and dropped the kids on his way to work. So I asked that on his one day, he sorted everything out for the kids too, like I do every other day. It was a disaster and the mornings were so stressful for everyone that I have had to intervene for everyone’s sanity.

The final straw was when I tried to calmly bring this up again recently and he actually told me that he didn’t think I did that much in the home, and I could tell that he actually really believes this. I do all the laundry (his included), the majority of the food shopping, a lot of the cooking (he does cook 2 or 3 nights a week due to our schedules to be fair to him), all the life admin, kids admin, sorting birthday parties/presents, booking clubs and lessons, etc, you know what it involves! So trying not to antagonise the situation I calmly said that if he felt I didn’t do very much around the home that he wouldn’t notice if I continued not to do it for the next month, and then he accused me of being petty and not trying to do the best for our family.

I honestly don’t know where to go from here. It’s the fact that he can’t see my point of view that upsets me the most, despite me trying to talk about things calmly and not be accusatory. He’s definitely got a degree of neurodiversity going on, although never diagnosed, so I’m sure that’s a major factor in this.

Help! I really think we should be able to make this work but I’m struggling to see how when he can’t see my point of view.

I had a husband like this (note had, he's now an ex-h).

He thought he did a lot around the house and I did nothing. He could list with exact dates things he'd done. He never really computed that if he was doing as much as he thought, it would be daily and there was a certain irony in knowing the exact dates he'd done different jobs.

I WFH, so what he didn't see was the daily multiple loads going in the washing machine, the daily vacuuming, the meal that went in the slow cooker so it would be ready for him to serve up whilst I was working.

The walking past stuff that had been left on the stairs rather than taking it with him on the way up would drive me mad.

He thought he was being caring because of he saw me doing a job in the house he'd say, "oh let me do that". He didn't realise that this just meant I'd go and get on with one of the many other jobs that needed doing, so what I wanted him to do was not say, "let me do that", but, "whilst you are doing x, I'll go and sort out y".

I think mothers of boys (which I am), can do a lot to help address gender imbalance in the house by teaching boys what has to be done to run a family home and getting them involved from an early age.

The dishes and recycling thing would annoy me because to me that's about your time being less important than his.

But to leave his child in soaking wet clothes is neglect. I would go mental. It's basic parenting.

From now on I would stop doing things for him.

I couldn't accept it.

No, he is pretty rubbish with tech, and uses his phone far less than the average person. And he rarely uses any other devices.
In fact thats a bone of contention that he doesnt use his phone to check messages, emails or communicate!

I suspected ND for probably 15 years more, well before it seemed to become common. I heard a piece on the radio about 4 years ago, about adult adhd and it was a light bulb moment they were literally describing him.

And we work together, he is brilliant at practical stuff and could concentrate for days but useless at admin and time management.

Did his mum do everything for him and his dad?

Are you married to my husband?

Majority of that I could have written the post about. Although mine tells people that I do nothing around the house and how he does everything…. My favourite time was him telling the Tesco delivery driver this as I was the one taking at the crates through to the kitchen, from the shop that I sorted and ordered, and emptied them then put away once the delivery was done - all whilst he just stood there telling the driver all about how I do nothing. The driver just gave me this look that said “what a dickhead” as if he could feel my pain.

Mine does do the laundry to be fair. But he does the leave all the clean dishes on the side of he empties the dishwasher that I then have to sort and put away, but he claims full credit for “doing the dishwasher”. Or he’ll half unload it (the bottom) and then start loading it without emptying the top…I do 95% of the cooking. He might occasionally sort something out but it’s rare. I’m the one who will do the quick wipe around in the bathrooms to keep them looking ok, then the bigger clean as needed. He bought me a robot vacuum cleaner for Xmas after I’d begged for years - so “Rob” vacuums downstairs for me daily now. I’m the one that goes round picking up left rubbish/plates/glasses etc and taking them to the kitchen, throwing the rubbish and loading into the dishwasher. If he does remember to take stuff out, he literally walks past the bin and leaves the rubbish on the plate. I do any polishing/dusting. I clean up the kitchen (although he will do this at a weekend). But I genuinely think that he doesn’t see all that I do. Obviously he does nothing on the mental load side - I sort all birthdays, Christmas, parties, insurance, topping up kids card for lunches, remembering school trips, sorting parents evening appointments, etc, etc.

I’m in the process of trying to leave mine because he’s also emotionally abusive. I don’t know whether I’d advocate leaving over just an unfair split of the work - but if he wouldn’t address it or try to make it fairer, I’d certainly consider it.

You need to stop stepping up all the time and let him fail sometimes. Tell DH that you are no longer going to be involved on your morning off - and either have a very long well timed shower, go for a walk or have a lie in but just don't be around because you know you'll end up just doing everything. If they are late to school so be it. If DC forget PE kit or packed lunch then DH will need to go bac and sort it. You need to just walk away.

Likewise, give him jobs that he can't avoid - his laundry definitely, meals on certain days (preferably when you are out at a new found hobby), anything to do with his family. Leave him to figure it out just like he presumably manages to at work. I would also consider booking yourself a mini break and properly letting him manage for a few days. No pre-cooked meals, no uniforms ready, strip the beds before you leave so he has to remake them a particularly cruel but useful lesson . He's a lazy man child that is doing a shit job because he knows you'll take over and do it for him

He thought he was being caring because of he saw me doing a job in the house he'd say, "oh let me do that".

Aah this is a DH special. I'll be hanging a few bits of washing on the clothes horse, and he'll start to join in. So I'll snap "NO, do SOMETHING ELSE, this ISN'T a 2 person job!!"

There’s your problem @confusedlots

If you are even questioning his response to you bringing these things up then that tells you all you need to know.

He won’t change.

You have a choice. Stay or leave.

it really is that brutal unfortunately.

I’m sorry but this is weird. You prided yourself on sending cards/presents to his family? You think they judge you for expecting him to sort his own cards/presents?

If that’s the POV his family all have then he’s definetly not going to change. It was what he was brought up to believe. Try and make sure he doesn’t pass to much of that nonsense on to your children.

The problem I discovered though, for those who suggest to just leave it for him to do was that the house ended up getting more and more untidy and then dirty.

I would say to him that I was embarrassed by it, but he thought it was fine and I was exaggerating.

By the time I left he still thought he was "doing everything". Funny how until he moved the new girlfriend in, his house was squalid, but mine is lovely and clean with minimal effort all the time (because I'm no longer clearing up someone else's crap).

Many threads where someone's poor behaviour is automatically put down to adhd, are they on the spectrum , have you considered they are ND the op is told.

My better half is exactly the same. Drives me insane to be fair and pretty much the only thing we fight about. I am his partner, not his mother.

As daft as it sounds, go on strike. I did still feed him but left his plate in the kitchen to go get himself, same when I made a cuppa, instead of taking it to him I left it then said 'tea on the bench'. I stopped tidying up after him as he leaves everything at his arse, everything. Mugs, coke cans, sweetie wrappers, envelopes, packaging, DIY tools he's used, plates, towels, dirty clothes...

Do it light heartedly, big smile on your face! I've done it and it does make a point but the improvement that happens after is never long lasting. I piled up everything that my partner left and put them in bags, after a couple of days I chucked them on his side of the bed. There was so much of it that it ended up doing down the side of the bed too, everything he didn't put away or clean up. Well, it entertained me anyway.

I did take photographs and when we are arguing again over him leaving everything at his arse, I ask him if he'd like to see the photos and he shuts up fairly quick and reluctantly starts cleaning up again for a while.

The other thing I did was stop reminding him of appointments or something important that he needed to do. I'd be asked to remind him, then when I did, get told off for nagging and hear 'Yeah, I know/was just doing to do that'. So basically am in a no-win situation. So I stopped. If he wants to make his own life more difficult, fine.

I wish people would stop making excuses for men like this. It is a pattern among men. There is no equivalent pattern among women. It's not ADHD, it's not 'he just doesn't see it'. It is a pattern of lazy, selfish behaviour that undermines and devalues women and families.

He probably thinks he takes fifty percent of the workload and it's perfectly fair and you're not even grateful and nothing he does is ever right.

In my experience some men are quite capable of forming this belief without any help from neurodivergence.

I would wholeheartedly recommend any couple try and make the most of shared parental leave or more evenly split time off - I went from 3 days a week to DH & I each doing 4 days and yes it meant a drop in salary but it was so worth it for both his relationship with the DC and being generally more on it around the house. So for example swimming lessons fell on his day so I removed myself entirely from those arrangements from booking & paying to lift shares and sorting the kids out. He knew he had to get a load of washing in & hung out, make dinner do packed lunches, kids dropped & collected and youngest cared for. So a normal day for a SAHM. Only 1 day but made a real difference to him seeing and therefore sharing responsibilities the rest of the week.

So you wouldn't have a problem with a man saying the same thing about his wife?

He took DS out recently and they ended up getting soaked heading back to the car. They came home, DH got dried and changed and made himself a cup of tea and sat down. I was sorting laundry and just asked where DS was and he had left him in dripping wet clothes to play in his room and hadn’t thought that he should maybe make sure he got changed into something dry. DS is 7.

This is what would have made me lose my shit. Selfish arsehole of a husband. How is he that selfish to leave his child in wet clothes? Poor boy.

He thinks you don’t do much? Bloody hell!

I tell you what, if he wants to see petty I’d give him full on petty.

Im not falling for anything. I know it’s far from ideal. I think you‘ve read my post wrong, the only thing that stops it tipping over into a deal breaker is that at least he’s appreciative. But this is mumsnet where everything is black and white so of course I should immediately divorce him based on the opinion of some stranger on the internet..,

Are you a useless DH? Because these sound like the kind of nasty excuses my DH gives me.
Yes, 7 year olds can change their clothes but like most chikdren need reminding because, well, they are children and forget, don't think of consequences etc. He selfishly looked after himself without a thought for his child. Chikdren need to be reminded.

Yes, dishes need to be put in the dishwasher. It doesn't clean them if you just sit them on top of it. So by leaving them on the counter you are basically saying one of two things: I think someone else should put these in the dishwasher to have them cleaned (so someone should clean up after you) or, I think these dishes should stay here on the top permanently.

What was your third example? I forget, it doesn't matter because we have heard all the lazy excuses before and they all basically say: I think my time and energy is more valuable than yours and I don't care if I inconvenience you.

@confusedlots When you lived together, without children, presumably both working full time, how did it work?
Did he do his fair share?
Once we had DS and I was on mat leave and then "only" part time, DH seemed to think the house was my job. We had a rather heated conversation a couple of times until it sunk in that the days I wasn't at work were to spend time with ds, not to be his maid!
I do a bit more, I'm still PT by choice and DS is 17, I cook more, because I like it (and I'm better at it), I do all the laundry, but he does as much cleaning as I do, he washes up and cleans the kitchen when I cook (and vise versa). He always did his family and friends birthdays, Christmas cards etc.

I think you need to do it fully but in a way that doesn’t affect the kids too badly.

Down tools completely on his responsibilities - no more laundry for him, no more booking him tickets for days out, no more helping him find misplaced belongings (phone, wallet, keys), no more tidying up after him, no more preparing the kids stuff on his drop off days (and if the school calls, ask them to call/ message him instead), no more doing the food shop for days he cooks etc.

You want to down tools while you’re together so you can prepare for what he’ll be like with the kids if you were to separate. Right now you’ve enabled and shielded him from the realities of parenting and keeping a home.

I had to endure a weekend of a friend’s wife proving a point to him about his uselessness. It was awkward and embarrassing and we spent the whole weekend feeling hungry and unwelcome. I haven’t seen them since. I decided that they were both equally awful in their own ways. We catered really well for both of them when they came to ours so I was a bit pissed off that we got dragged into their marital point scoring.

What exactly are the consequences of not changing out of wet clothes ? Feeling cold? Well then the 7 year old should be able to get out of the wet clothes

but what else? The clothes will dry quicker on after all

you have different standards and approaches and it seems neither is right in absolute terms

But not everyone's DH would do that. Mine seems to think that being in the same physical space as our DC is all that's necessary and sits there on his phone. He them threatens them with leaving without them when they haven't their kit packed,snack,drink, been to toilet etc 1 minute before they leave to go to football (the only place he takes them, obsessed). So yes, to avoid my children being continually upset (one with diagnosed SEN) i have to get prompt them to get organised and ready to go. This is despite many calm sit-downs explaining my approach. He just goes straight to excuses - they should get themselves ready, they shouldn't need the toilet, they know we leave at x time, etc. Disregarding that they are children. Just thinks of himself.