Is this rude from a child? Age 6, furious reaction from teacher

[partytimed]

My DS was at school today and his teacher addressed the class saying “I don’t want to hear from you unless you need the toilet, you’re in pain or injured.” My DS raised his hand and said “I’m pain and injured is kind of the same thing.” Another teacher overheard and shouted at him so much he was crying and still crying about it at bedtime.

obviously I only have his account of the incident so this is all the detail I have. He didn’t think he had said anything wrong. I’ve noticed this year he’s complained of strict scary teachers and he’s becoming anxious about going to school. Would appreciate opinions on whether this apparently very big telling off was justified. He said his friends were comforting afterwards and he was crying and apologising whilst the teacher continued to shout.

There will not have been over the top shouting or aggression this is primary school!

I have noticed increasingly in recent years that a lot of young children say an adult was 'shouting' when they use a stern tone and raise their voice even slightly for impact. They arent shouting, but the children think they are, because nobody at home uses that 'telling off voice' with them so they aren't used to it.

A lot of children also associate being told off with 'being shouted at'. Again because often they arent properly told off at home - adults say wishy washy things to them like 'use kind hands!' or tell them to think about their behaviour but actually they are rarely properly told off.

Also as much as some people don't like to hear it, a teacher and the children are not equals. Presumably you don't expect the adults to ask permission to go to the toilet, but if you applied the same rule in a classroom, some kids would miss most of the lesson and get no work done.

Is he just not used to being told off, and in front of others too?

I’d talk to the teacher to get clarity, but be ready to apologise if it turns out they behaved appropriately.

I was originally a secondary teacher who retrained for primary after my children were born. As an English teacher I winced at the paucity of the language used with small children. I found that the only word they’d learned to describe negative emotions, for eg, was ‘sad’. We’d read a story about a monster jumping out on someone and I’d ask them how the person might feel and they would all chant ‘sad!’ (Not the only instance).

Similarly I saw children accuse someone of shouting when they really hadn’t, or screaming when they’d simply raised their voice. I’d honestly take what a 6 year old says with a few grains of salt.

But turn this to a positive- make sure your son gets that he needs to be quiet when asked, and not seek further clarification.

This. My eldest son ( now 32) is clever but has ADHD. He would have been unable to prevent himself coming out with something like this. The rest of the class would probably have laughed. He spent quite a lot of time outside the classroom because of it. I was a teacher at the same school. Teaching a smart arse gets very , very tedious.

I agree you need to find out what actually happened. Like the teacher's reaction sound OTT but also why does your child not understand working quietly means not asking completely unnecessary questions?

It sounds like a lesson learned and hopefully next time the teacher says silence he takes it on board, however, if you're genuinely concerned you could have a very diplomatic non-accusatory chat with the teachers along the lines of ' I know 6 year olds aren't the most reliable when it comes to regaling events however DS has been really upset over a telling off incident yesterday. He's a sensitive boy and it would be helpful to understand what actually happened so we can reinforce school rules at home and help him understand what's expected of him and hopefully avoid getting in trouble again.'

Unbelievably shocked by all these ‘he’s been a smart arse comments’ and thinking it’s fine for a teacher to scream at six year old. Especially so early in the term after coming from a much more play based environment. Children are children and six is still so young.

I was the smart arsed comment child if I’m honest and I agree.

Thing is though if you know you’re the smart arsed class clown sort of kid even at that age I think you accept that getting told off is a an occupational hazard.

The fact OP’s son is so upset about it makes me think that a. He genuinely didn’t know he was being a smart arse or b. He knew he was being clever but this particular teacher’s reaction at this particular time was far more than he expected, possibly too much, and it has actually upset him.

OP it’s worth speaking with his teacher for clarification on exactly what happened because a 6 year old isn't always a reliable witness. Also worth speaking to DS more objectively about why he felt the need to pipe up like that when they’d clearly all been told to be quiet. Whether it was a genuine question or an attempt to be clever for laughs you need to explain why it wasn’t appropriate or appreciated.

Honestly I'd let this go. Of course jr was a cheeky comment, he was trying to correct the teacher which never goes down well. It sounds like it was another teacher who told him off. ?
There is no way of going to the school about this without coming across as that crazy parent. Ie telling them that they need to gentle when disciplining him for being cheeky.

It doesn't sound like she lost her temper, frustrated maybe.

He was being cheeky.

Explain to him what she meant and tell him not to answer back in future.

Kids today are snowflakes. And so are some of their parents.

I mean - yes your child was being a bit rude - but I would be surprised if they teacher went on and and and on at him tho… and sobbed (and timed it) for 2 minutes? Have a word with the teacher. Could it be that this isn’t the first time he’s interrupted her? Etc.

Critical thinking please! Would you be happy to be judged and sentenced on the testimony of a 6 year old with a vested interest?

How would the child know it was 2 minutes? Stop watch?

Is what he said really rude though and not just a literal exploration of what the teacher has said?

Yes, it is rude. Teacher was asking the class for quiet, and he put his hand up to “correct” her/argue her point etc etc (call it what you will). He was being a smart arse. It was cheeky and unnecessary, and he has been sanctioned for it.
And he’s wrong anyway, being injured and being in pain are NOT the same thing.

I was that smart-arse kid once, and the teacher lobbed the chalkboard duster at my head! Luckily she missed. A valuable lesson though.

I remember making a comment like that in class at around the age. I was told to stop being facetious and I remember going and asking my mum what that meant. I was also very upset and still hate that teacher 30 years later.

Taught me that there's a time to speak and a time to keep silent....sorry your son is feeling sad about school now. I'm sure it will pass

My son would do that...to be a smart ass now at age 11 but he would absolutely have done it at age 6 without thinking anything of it. Some teachers are not equipped to deal with younger kids. The teacher should just have said something like " yes thank you. Now shush" and carried on. Shouting was a bit OTT regardless of how long it went on for.

I remember I used to say things like that, aged six. When a teacher said to the class "if you can't behave here, you can find one of those do-as-you-like-schools". I said "I've found a school where you can do as you like", which was kind of true: at a summer camp, we had an activity called "school", where we could mostly do as we like. The teacher knew me well enough, and simply glared at me; but a different teacher would probably have told me off for being rude, which might indeed have upset me. I often got told I was being "rude" when I made childish observations. I once got severely told off at home for saying "ugh" when a visitor was smoking on our doorstep. (My parents were very divided about smoking: one of them was on my side, the other was not.) I learned to choose my moments carefully when pointing things out.

I think children need to learn that there is a time and a place for remarks like that; and to be fair to them, they hear adults doing it with each other, and are copying them. Furiously telling children off is not good, although an adult might do it in the heat of the moment, especially if they are angry already. Literal-minded children might easily say things like that, and perhaps need to be told that you should not contradict teachers (or as a compromise, not when the teacher is addressing the whole class).

If he's old enough to understand this explanation, it might work to explain how when a teacher is speaking to the whole class, they need to do it without being interrupted, and that it's OK to quietly think thinks like "pain or being injured are the same thing", and maybe say it later.

He was trying to show off. But his motivation is irrelevant. He had been told to be quiet.

This. Your kid was being a smartarse. I really understand why teachers are leaving.

Being at school isn’t the same as being in a one to one conversation

imagine a class of 30 6 year olds. You spent 20 minutes in input questioning and scaffolding and now it’s time for them to do some independent work /listen to some more instruction/ reading in silence. The class are quiet and it may have taken a while or they may be lively. You give the instruction. Then some clever clogs completely ignores the instruction and questions “pain and injury are the same thing”. Whole class are now off task either shocked at the audacity, or finding it funny and now there is the whole pantomime of this telling off by another member of staff who observed the insolence.

Now imagine they are 16 year old boys who you have to get a grade 5 at GCSE. Welcome to the world of teaching.

If he wanted to know the answer to this specific question he can wait until break time to ask it. I’m sure he would not be that interested and would rather just go to play.

it is rude and disrespectful to question an instruction that was given and not follow instruction.

He needs to be told by you to follow the instruction as not doing so is rude and disruptive. If he has any questions they can wait until an appropriate time and you will have to tell him what this is.

No just pedantic

At least you didn't point out that "facetious" is one of the only words in English which has all five vowels, in order. (The other is "abstemious".) I remember seeing that in a book of trivia for children; I think by then, I'd learned not to give a reply like that.

I was also very upset and still hate that teacher 30 years later

Thats mental