Is this rude from a child? Age 6, furious reaction from teacher

[partytimed]

My DS was at school today and his teacher addressed the class saying “I don’t want to hear from you unless you need the toilet, you’re in pain or injured.” My DS raised his hand and said “I’m pain and injured is kind of the same thing.” Another teacher overheard and shouted at him so much he was crying and still crying about it at bedtime.

obviously I only have his account of the incident so this is all the detail I have. He didn’t think he had said anything wrong. I’ve noticed this year he’s complained of strict scary teachers and he’s becoming anxious about going to school. Would appreciate opinions on whether this apparently very big telling off was justified. He said his friends were comforting afterwards and he was crying and apologising whilst the teacher continued to shout.

“I don’t want to hear from you unless you need the toilet, you’re in pain or injured.”

TBH I think the teacher was really rude saying this. Would she have been as abrupt with an adult?

I was a bit of a smart ass kid in secondary school. I got off with it mostly because I was top in several subjects and a bit of a teacher's pet. One subject I hated was sport which I dodged whenever possible and made no effort.

One day the sports teacher asked me "You dont like sport do you Friendly?" When I replied in the affirmative, adding that I was poor at sport and had no interest in it, the teacher proceeded to lecture me. "You cant go through life avoiding things just because you dont like them"

I ponted out that I was top in 5 academic subjects and it was these I would be putting down when I applied for a job. I added that I was "not looking for a job as a sports teacher". The teacher then told me I was a cheeky girl.

"No miss, you asked me a question and I answered you".

All my kids are adults and I was 100% not the parent who went running in all guns blazing because I respect a teacher's authority in their own classroom. THAT SAID, I would 100% be contacting the teacher on this because these kids are SIX! That's still infant school and no teacher should be talking to a class full of infant school kids like that in the first place, never mind the yelling from another teacher. Obviously their version is going to be different but I'd want to know more.

We had a teacher in primary who did say things like this when she'd asked for quiet but dc kept talking.

He was right though. Would you shout at a kid for that? Ridiculous.

This is my first time on Mumsnet and, having read some of the replies, I think it'll be my last. What happened to compassion and supporting other parents? So many of the comments come across as self-righteous and judgemental. Please be kind.
And in case anyone thinks I must be a "snowflake", I grew up in the 70s/80s when a chalk board rubber aimed at your head by a disgruntled French teacher wasn't unusual!

And what message is it sending to the children?

"If you don't understand the schoolwork or have any questions about it, too bad - I will shout at you if you address me. I only want to hear from you if you are in pain or need the toilet - that is the bare minimum of "teaching" that I'm prepared to do, so if you're here for an education, you're in the wrong place."

I think if an older child, say 10 plus did this, the chances are more likely they were pushing boundaries and being cheeky (though some literal interpreters might not intend this and children with adhd might impulsively respond instead of being quiet).

But a 6 year old? Should not be shouted at in any case, just firmly reiterate the message and that it means to be quiet as of now.

I'd ask any of the other children what happened? Then ask the teacher for their account?

As someone who has had a couple of horrid teachers, I’m going to side with your child. Yes, they do still exist from what I’ve heard. And it does cause children to want to avoid school. The stupid things I hear teachers doing to children, like humiliation etc are unbelievable.

Why are teachers screaming or shouting at a child, let alone a 6 year old - that’s unacceptable! He’s not overly sensitive, he’s 6 years old, it’s a scary situation. If teachers don’t know how to handle young children without shouting and demanding unreasonable periods of silence they have no business teaching. It shows a lack of critical thinking, awareness of child’s development/age, & the demands are unreasonable.

It’s not a cheeky reply, the child probably needed clarification. Try understand it from their perspective.

I had a horrid scary teacher in my first year of school, who made me cry on my first day over smtg trivial. She continued being mean & unnecessarily strict. My parents moved me to a better school.

I’ve thought about this some more since my last reply. I’d be so upset and would 100% be requesting a meeting with the teacher and the head. The fact that two teachers were involved and your son talks of scary teachers and lots of having to sit quietly woud make me worry there was a negative, bullying culture in the school. The teachers remark was not appropriate for use with young kids. It might be ok if said with a jokey tone with post primary kids but not 6 year olds. The second teacher wading in intimidating and shouting at a little child even as he was crying and trying to apologise really is disproportionate and contemptible and I’d be wanting their guts for garters. I’m no Pollyanna at all but it makes me sad to think of the little fellow. It must been quite scary and shocking if the little classmates were trying to comfort him. In my opinion your child said absolutely nothing wrong. Normally we encourage children to be inquisitive, to ask questions and engage with teachers. He was just making an observation that would have welcomed and a decent teacher would probably have smiled or laughed at it. Fuck them - absolute pricks.

I’d be dealing with this very seriously and keeping a very close eye.

He was trying to be a smart arse and didn't like being reprimanded.
It's that simple..

He's a six-year-old in what's supposed to be a child-friendly primary school, not some hapless conscript in the army, where they don't tolerate "cleverness".

It's that simple, Sergeant.

>>" Is what he said really rude though and not just a literal exploration of what the teacher has said?"

It's not "really rude" but it is disrespectful to the teacher's instructions, it wastes time, it's a bit nit-picky at a time where there are more important things going on. If your son doesn't naturally pick up on those social cues, he needs to be told. I give kind and clear explanations about this sort of interruption to my autistic students.

If your son is definitely not ND in any way, then he probably did know he was being a smart arse and was wasting everyone's time for his own amusement.

The shouting isn't okay though. Teachers shouldn't shout.

"...at a time where there are more important things going on."

Such as the "teacher" telling the students, "I'm only here to put in the hours, so I don’t want to hear from you unless you need the toilet, you’re in pain or injured. If you want to learn anything, there are private tutors your parents can hire."

Some parents encourage their kids to always pipe up with something witty and cheeky to show how funny and smart they are. I'd have said sharply "well actually Billy, you could be injured and not in pain, or you could be in pain but not injured."

Is this year 1? A lot of kids find the jump between reception and year 1 a lot in terms of expectations of behaviour.

In future, just tell him not to interrupt class with wise cracks. It isnt the time or place.

Pain and injury mean two different things so he was incorrect but he is only 6. And so what he tried to correct the teacher even if his understanding was wrong. He didn’t deserved to be shouted at. He wasn’t repeatedly interrupting.

It may be a habit where this little boy has encouraged to always pipe up with his opinions and observations as his loved ones usually tell him how clever it makes him.

He is six years old. This is not okay. It’s one thing when a teacher snaps in a ‘last straw’ kind of way to a room full of poorly behaved teens, but shouting at a six year old for blurting something out is awful.

Also don’t like the sound of the heavy handed strictness for such young kids. Personally I’d be raising it with the head teacher.

Proper smart-alec backchat from him. I’d tell him not to dish it out if he’s going to cry all day for being told off. And yes I know he’s 6 but he needs to learn a bit more resilience. He’s also wrong - they aren’t the same at all. You can be in pain but not injured and you can be injured but not be in pain (which is more unusual but it can happen). The teachers obviously aren’t that mean and scary if he feels free to make these comments.

I did something to a tendon in my arm once. I woke up in the morning and I couldn't straighten my arm out, it was like something was gone that used to let me stretch it out. No pain at all. I had to keep my arm in like an imaginary sling position. It was about 3 days before it went back to normal.

I was definitely injured, but not in pain.

It was cheeky of him to reply like that, and you might explain why so he can avoid doing it another time. If the teacher literally shouted she was out of order, but sometimes children use ‘shout’ to mean ‘tell off’.

Which is why the job isn't for everyone if you can't manage to keep calm and controlled. Grace under pressure and all that.

If he is saying comments like that, he can’t be that scared of the teacher.

Your child was a smart arse. While injured and in pain can overlap, you could have a sore throat because of a cold and not an injury but explaining that just delays the quiet time.
It’s hard to comment on the strictness side. Many parents feel that behaviour in schools is out of control and that incidents like this disrupt learning. They see quiet adherence as a sign of respect to the teacher and them being a good teacher in control. Remember that aome kids see a quiet classroom as calm and better for learning plus it’s easier for the adults to manage things and spot problems. My son is like yours and finds a different environment as best but strict is the fashion these days.
I think that you need to clarify with the school about the telling off. My kids describe telling off from teachers very harshly as there is an element of embarrassment as it’s an unusual event and they want their teachers to be impressed by them. Even if the teacher didn’t raise their voice, the telling off seems worse to them so they used words like shout. I’m not saying that your son wasn’t shouted at but he must have felt embarrassed that everyone else heard and saw him cry. My son could be told off without raising my voice (his siblings couldn’t ) but an adult like a teacher looking after him wouldn’t know that and could have seen scarier than me.