Autistic child attacking DD

[HollandAndCooper]

Hi all,

just looking for advice re the above. DD started reception at the beginning of September. She's a confident child and had no issues starting until recently.

3 times in the last 2 weeks an autistic boy has assaulted and attacked DD.
the first occasion was pinching her on her cheek leaving a mark and bruise. She was climbing on the adventure frame in the playground when this happened. Totally unprovoked.
the second occasion, he kicked her on her shin leaving a horrible bruise.
3rd occasion (today) the child in question has hit DD on her head so hard it's left a mark.

I picked her up and she was utterly hysterical.

I am so incredibly angry. I know this child has SEN but as a lot of you will relate, when someone attacks and hurts your child it rages you like nothing else. The first occasion I was angry but as understanding as can be. Now 2 and 3 more times have happened, I'm losing my patience.

it's a very small and Intimate village school, one class per year and is only reception - y2. There is no where else for the boy to go in the school because of this.

all incidents have been noted but I've now demanded a safeguarding investigation take place as he's gunning for my DD. I've been told they're doing their best to 'keep them apart.' My daughter doesn't need to be kept apart from anybody, he needs keeping away from her.

i know who the mum is. At drop off whilst waiting for the gates to be opened this child constantly presses on the intercom, bangs and punches the notice board. The mum just stands there and doesn't say anything. I know conventional discipline won't work with all SEN children, but do I speak to the mum about this? I am so angry that my 4 year old little girl cannot have her right to a safe learning environment due to this child. I have no idea if he's attacked other children.

please don't take this as a thread to hate on SEN. I am neurodiverse myself, and DD most probably is to and is on the correct pathways.

has anyone else been through this, does anyone have any advice? In reality I'd like the boy to be expelled as we're 4 weeks into her schooling life and my daughter has been assaulted 3 times. But who am I to demand that.

im at a loss on what to do. My confident, happy little girl who has loved going to school is now getting upset at drop off and is hysterical at pick up. I'm just heartbroken for her.

I know fights and scraps are normal for young kids, but this is not in the realms of normal.

any advice will be greatly received.

thank you

Great, do you have a new point to make? Or an apology for the OP perhaps?

If he doesn't have a diagnosis it's a horrid thing to say, and such a kick in the teeth to other parents and children with autism.

I can only take what she says at face value though. The conversation was very brief and before anything ever happened. It was only on the 2nd or 3rd day at school at the gates. (Where he was smashing the notice board and pressing the Intercom over and over)

you need to stop making allowances for this brat and start safeguarding your child the school and the parents need to be doing more to stop this and your kid has a right to feel safe in school

I've pulled her out and taken annual leave for next week. She wont be going back until she is safe

As you will know from being on a ND pathway getting a diagnosis either takes years of interaction and pressure on the local authority or/and you spend thousands of pounds on phycologists reports. Having a ND child is very expensive. Schools won't just accept a self ID.

"Oh dear should I feel bad that my autistic (sometimes violent) son has a funded 1-to-1 since year 2 and is diverting funding away from all the other children?"

My son had 3:1 by the time he left school and now has 3:1 adult care. I guess I am supposed to be feeling extra bad.

Nope neither. But if I do have another point to make I will do so.

Ah I see.
yeah I don't know much about autism and I wont pretend to either.
I was diagnosed ND at 7 and back then my parents had to go through so many hoops and assessments.

DD is on a pathway and she probably wont get a diagnosis for another 1-2 years.

it shouldn't be like this when so many kids slip through the net and need more help and support. I don't know what the answer is.
well it's evidently money but from where :(

Ours is just 2:1. There’s time yet!

(Primary school teacher here)

I'm so sorry for OP's daughter's experience. I totally agree with the PP who said to document EVERYTHING in writing. Having a paper trail is invaluable. Follow up meetings in writing ("In our meeting on X date, you said Y...") and ("With reference to my previous email/letter of X date"). Not only does this stop the school from denying that a verbal promise to you was made, it also helps the school when they are building a folder of evidence about the behaviour of the violent child.

To get an EHCP or work towards exclusion, a LOT of evidence is needed first. Most children with SEND don't have an EHCP already in place by the time they arrive in reception. (Of course some do but most don't). I've known cases where despite everyone's best efforts a child has reached Y4 or Y5 before their EHCP is in place.

Even when a child who CLEARLY needs a 1:1 adult to meet their needs/keep other children safe does get an EHCP agreed, sometimes the funding granted on the EHCP is laughably inadequate. We've got a boy in Y4 at the moment - REALLY needs 1:1 all the time. On his EHCP he is entitled to FIVE hours per week of funded 1:1. That's one hour per day. Of course we can't leave him unsupported for the rest of the day so a TA who's funded by the school is pulled away from working with other children to support him.

In another case, in the reception class there is a TA for the class. But there are 2 children in the reception class with high levels of SEND and no EHCPs in place yet as school hasn't had enough time yet to collect evidence and parents/GP/nursery didnt get it done before starting school. One of them has no sense of danger, suspected autism and needs constant watching. The other is almost non-verbal, incontinent and eats everything (bugs, wood, plastic). Obviously the class TA's time is currently completely taken up supporting these children so she is not available to the rest of the class, which is really her job. Our SENDco is urgently working towards getting the funding for support they need. Probably neither should be in mainstream but this is the reality in schools today.

I HAVE in the past known very young children to have got managed moves to other settings after extreme violence which caused injury to other children. I'm sure OP doesn't want her child to have to be seriously injured before the other child can be removed from the setting.

No need to feel any more bad than parents who take resources away from school by using free school meals. School should be spending money on education not food. At least one is a medical condition, not feeding a child is a parent failing.,

Just for the purpose of the thread I'm diagnosed ADHD and OCD, not autism. So I won't pretend to be informed about autism when it's not something I've personally experienced.

@TheMadGardenerthats invaluable, thank you

In fairness, having a diagnosis is helpful in terms of support etc, but it doesn’t make anyone more or less ND.

If you took away our son’s diagnosis, he’d still have the same level of needs, he’d just be missing the formal label. He didn’t just become autistic when someone confirmed it.

In terms of age - it’s not typical to get a diagnosis before school age, because education provisions are often either the catalyst or a huge support to getting one. But - we had ours by 2.5years old, and I do know other SENd parents who had diagnoses as early.

Yes that's a really good point actually. A diagnosis isn't going to change the fact the child or person still has that condition

I’m sure we’ll all be eagerly awaiting your next ‘point’. Hopefully it won’t be more misinformation or further victim blaming like your previous contributions.

Do what you like, it’s of no concern to me.🤷‍♀️

Hold on a minute. Am I supposed to feel bad that when I was a parent to three kids - who went from hostel to council house on relationship breakdown - that I availed of the support available to me when I initially was not able to work because my kids were traumatised and then used free school meals to help me when I went to college and then uni?

If it helps - the school won’t just take her word for it.

If he isn’t diagnosed, and they think the behaviour is chosen or there’s no needs present, they’ll manage it the same way they always do.

There might be an influx of parents claiming their kids are ND, for various reasons, but there aren’t professionals just humouring them and letting kids get away with murder as a result.

They know what they’re looking for, and know how to manage either needs based or chosen behaviour, and they won’t just accept “ah well he’s maybe autistic 🤷🏻‍♀️” as an excuse.

Yeah I wouldn’t focus on whether or not he has a diagnosis or not. The fact of the matter is he’s a violent child who has assaulted your daughter on multiple occasions.

For the meeting I would have made notes on the 4 incidents, where when who etc, is there a pattern to behaviours. Print off the school policies in relation to behaviour management of pupils. Check your local authority if they have any published policies and procedures too. I would also speak to the parents you know to see if there has been any issues with this child. At the meeting ask how they plan to safeguard her, say you want your concerns formally recording that you are concerned this behaviour is escalating, you can ask if it’s isolated but they may not answer. Ask how they plan to address it and what the next steps would be. Maybe write down everything you want to say in case you get upset. Don’t be afraid to be assertive, you don’t want her becoming afraid to attend school because of this boy else that could open a huge can of worms in the future.

We had a similar problem with ineffective nursery staff and our youngest. Maybe ineffective is harsh, it just seemed that the climate of the nursery meant they couldn't really do what they needed to keep the others safe ie. Physical restraint and separation. Every day our daughter came home with scratches, went from loving nursery to screaming at drop off.

We were being told to make sure our kids were wearing thick long sleeve tops to reduce scratching incidents from the child and nothing meaningful done to actually stop the attacks.

After many meetings we resorted to getting our daughter a water bottle with a heavy base/narrow neck like a bat - reassuring her that she could retaliate with her strongest force and she would not be in any trouble at all. It worked wish wed gone to it much sooner. Another parent told their child to use pencil etc to stab at the face of the boy - just out of desperation for some way of stopping the daily assaults on our children. The place still got rated 'outstanding'.

Similar position to you small area no other nurseries and that one fed into the primary so needed sorting not just moving away from.

We’re still waiting for an ND diagnosis for DD1 at age 16. The school wouldn’t support us, as she wasn’t causing them any trouble then. She had a private assessment in 2023, arranged by adoption services, that concluded that, whilst she had traits of autism and ADHD, she was more likely to have FASD (Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder). However, she’s since had an MRI scan and EEG, which didn’t show any signs of it. She was diagnosed with epilepsy, following a tonic clonic seizure in the car on Christmas Day.

We’ve now been waiting for an NHS assessment, through ‘right to choose’ and we’re still waiting nearly 2 years on.

There is so much waiting involved, and parents usually have to really push for an actual diagnosis. I find it very hard to believe this mum could have got an official diagnosis for her son this early, sorry. It might of course be the case that he’s on a waiting list for assessment and she’s expecting a diagnosis of autism.

I was diagnosed with adhd at 43 and autism at 52.

🤷🏼‍♀️