Autistic child attacking DD

[HollandAndCooper]

Hi all,

just looking for advice re the above. DD started reception at the beginning of September. She's a confident child and had no issues starting until recently.

3 times in the last 2 weeks an autistic boy has assaulted and attacked DD.
the first occasion was pinching her on her cheek leaving a mark and bruise. She was climbing on the adventure frame in the playground when this happened. Totally unprovoked.
the second occasion, he kicked her on her shin leaving a horrible bruise.
3rd occasion (today) the child in question has hit DD on her head so hard it's left a mark.

I picked her up and she was utterly hysterical.

I am so incredibly angry. I know this child has SEN but as a lot of you will relate, when someone attacks and hurts your child it rages you like nothing else. The first occasion I was angry but as understanding as can be. Now 2 and 3 more times have happened, I'm losing my patience.

it's a very small and Intimate village school, one class per year and is only reception - y2. There is no where else for the boy to go in the school because of this.

all incidents have been noted but I've now demanded a safeguarding investigation take place as he's gunning for my DD. I've been told they're doing their best to 'keep them apart.' My daughter doesn't need to be kept apart from anybody, he needs keeping away from her.

i know who the mum is. At drop off whilst waiting for the gates to be opened this child constantly presses on the intercom, bangs and punches the notice board. The mum just stands there and doesn't say anything. I know conventional discipline won't work with all SEN children, but do I speak to the mum about this? I am so angry that my 4 year old little girl cannot have her right to a safe learning environment due to this child. I have no idea if he's attacked other children.

please don't take this as a thread to hate on SEN. I am neurodiverse myself, and DD most probably is to and is on the correct pathways.

has anyone else been through this, does anyone have any advice? In reality I'd like the boy to be expelled as we're 4 weeks into her schooling life and my daughter has been assaulted 3 times. But who am I to demand that.

im at a loss on what to do. My confident, happy little girl who has loved going to school is now getting upset at drop off and is hysterical at pick up. I'm just heartbroken for her.

I know fights and scraps are normal for young kids, but this is not in the realms of normal.

any advice will be greatly received.

thank you

She might give more fucks to namby-0pampy inclusiveness when her daughter needs support with ND.

This in fucking spades.

You're talking absolute shit, nobody said violence was ok, they just pointed out that exclusion of a disabled four year old should not be the first/ assumed response , and that OP is not reasonable to be focused on this.

It isn't hate to say that we should not pursue inclusion when the cost of that is the physical assault and injury of other children.

That's the implicit message here though isn't it. That's what actually happens in practice. Of course no one is going to say it in such bald terms. But children are putting up with peer on peer abuse for years while schools fail to protect them.

And sadly it does come down to how hard the parents fight, and resources they have to fight.

Agree that your focus needs to be on the school, not the child's Mum. She wasn't there so cannot be held responsible for it. I would expect the school to have spoken to her about the incidents but you don't have confirmation of that. In all likelihood, the child is violent due to having meltdowns or being over-stimulated. This can be incredibly difficult to manage.

You cannot demand the child is expelled or that they receive any specific punishments. I 100% understand your rage and upset at seeing DD injured and distressed, but you need to approach this with a level head to get the best outcome.

What you need to focus on is the school's responsibility to keep DD safe. Demand to see their safeguarding policy (if it's not online). If it is readily available, give it a read and highlight areas in which you find them lacking.

Once the head has made you promises verbally, request them in writing. If promises are broken, raise a complaint to governors. If the issue persists, raise it to the LEA.

Make sure you take photos of injuries and record any conversations with staff (end of day, reports of incidents etc) as soon as possible afterwards.

The real issue here is that the school are not coping with the child's behaviour. This needs to be recognised in order for changes to be implemented - be that further funding for a 1:1 or for him to be moved to a special school.

You're right, OP - the school have a duty to keep DD safe. Keep pushing from that angle and hopefully you'll be taken seriously.

I cannot agree with this more. One of my friends has 3 kids, the oldest DD being profoundly autistic with associated learning difficulties. She’s in the ASD base attached to all of our kid’s mainstream school. The ASD base finishes 15 minutes before the rest of the school. While, thankfully for my friend, her eldest DD isn’t often violent, in that fifteen minutes she has been known to take her clothes off, role flower beds, eat things off the ground and try and get in other cars, to name but a few things. This is despite members of staff bringing the other kids to my friend and helping them all into the car so she can literally 1:1 her. It’s absolutely relentless. Hard laugh at the thought of her ‘just needing to parent her DD more’. She’d flipping kill to be able to tell her off - sadly her DD doesn’t even understand language is a thing, let alone has any ability to use it. Honestly I think MNers should all be forced to look after a profoundly autistic child for a week before they start with this nonsense. I feel very sorry for the OP and her DD but it’s abhorrent how all these threads end up being a big parent bash.

I've been on both sides
In nursery it became clear my son wouldn't cope and school said they had applied for an ehcp...... I had a parent scream at me about him (after approaching staff it turns out the child was provoking him by trying to dictate where he could be and what he could do, pushing him at times and staff couldn't get there fast enough to grab him before meltdowns)
I called the council and asked where we were in the echp process and found the school had been lying, they never applied so I did and school then admitted they couldn't meet needs and he was able to be moved to an appropriate placement

Hes also been on the receiving end from an sen child who has made racist comments and lashed out at him

School dealt with incidents immediately, calling the child's parents in, the child had to miss break, had social stories done on using kind words and hands and eventually a suspension

I would want to know the schools policy for safeguarding and for dealing with potential bullying/inappropriate behaviour

So the op herself has said she is neurodiverse has additional needs'. Is her type of difference ok?

You don't have to give any fucks about the rules around school exclusions, but schools do! So your advice doesn't stand, because schools still cannot permanently exclude or permanently internally isolate a child simply because a group of parents demand it. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, your feelings don't change the rules.

A different setting takes time. It's possible that the LA even refused him a place until they have evidence that he can't cope in mainstream education.

Unfortunately, the system is set up against getting SEND children who can't cope in mainstream education the help they need quickly.

WTF

I haven't seen anyone on this thread say it is OK for children with SEN to be violent. Or that the OP is unreasonable for expecting her DD to feel safe at school.

That doesn't necessarily mean excluding pupils with SEN.

The OP absolutely should meet with the school and insist her child is kept safe. The details of keeping her child safe are up to the school. But keeping her child safe is non negotiable.

Her child isn’t making other children’s life hell by assaulting them though is she.

That's the implicit message here though isn't it.

No it's not. Is your thinking really this black and white?

I haven't read the full thread but I have only got 5 mins.

It isn't easy to get children that young permanently excluded, but where I work he would be a priority for 1:1 supervision. There is also internal exclusion or what we used to call "suspension". It actually served in my friends son's favour in the end as it was all evidence that his needs could not be supported in the mainstream setting. (He did eventually get excluded and they found him a place in alternate provision rather than another mainstream because of the evidence showing how much they'd tried for how long yet incidents kept happening)

Yet. Who know her ND might develop in the future. Being on a pathway at 4 suggest quite a deep level of ND, most kids don't even start the process until later in primary school.

I'm afraid the result of your view that SEN children who behave violently should have an education at all costs means that other children are going to be harmed. It's OK if that is your view just own it

I honestly do not care if you are surprised with my apparent ignorance. No one wants a child with sen to suffer . Everyone wants every child to get what they need to live a good life but NEVER at the detriment of another child’s education and never at a risk to their safety.

I’m sure the school will have to try very very hard though if every parent is demanding their child is safe, and perhaps are more likely to exclude on the grounds the school can’t cope with having to keep up with this level of safety.

nope

no one is advocating that violence is ok, good, acceptable or fine.

some, however, are attempting to infer that, of those whose point of view they disagree with

Really? Let's think.
Distract her child, speak to her child, hold them firmly by the hand, have them on a lead if they can't be trusted to bolt, bring a books, leave letter and arrive on the dot.

Do social stories to teach her child to cope with transitions, positive reinforcement for appropriate behaviour, practice lining up at home using role play, teach a replacement behaviour, like holding a fidget toy.

This mum is disengaged, maybe autistic too, maybe on drugs or depressed.

Ideally the school would support them and there should be a community of SEN parents helping each other.

As it is it's anti social behaviour making everyone miserable.

Presumably you googled that.