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Starmer thinks I am an enemy of the state

1000 replies

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 10:14

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
WolfingtonBear · 01/10/2025 14:45

These threads discussing our current “government” and its competitors do interest me, especially when there’s a poll! I’ve been on & off MN for almost 20 years. Even just a couple of years ago, the OP would have been completely drubbed and polls would have had minimal votes for the opposition of the leftist/liberal party line. I note though that 31% of those who have read the OP agree with them…

I'm so depressed by the state of everything that I have decided to sit firmly on the fence and observe rather than engage, for the sake of my mental health. A few things I know though, is that calling half plus of the electorate thick/racist/fascist/deplorable hasn't turned out so well in the US leading to a Trump government, the same will happen here, it IS happening - Farage obvs, not Trump. Additionally if you aren’t terrified by the idea of five police officers turning up to arrest you at the airport or in your own home for something you said on social media, you need to get your head out of the sand immediately. Labour is supportive & behind this and for that reason alone their government must be reined in. I’ve voted labour all my life, I will never vote for them again. They’re terrifying right now.

SomeOtherUser · 01/10/2025 14:45

I'm an EU citizen who has lived here for many years, and I do not love the idea of Reform coming into power. I frankly don't understand how anyone could listen to anything Nigel Farage says and think "that's the man I want running the country!".

I feel sad that the relationship between UK citizens and its immigrant population (which mostly comprises of people like me - normal, nice people who pull their weight and simply enjoy living here) has broken down to the extent that this is even a remote possibility. Would you vote in favour of Brexit again too? I miss feeling that the world was heading towards more free movement, not less...

WolfingtonBear · 01/10/2025 14:46

The best thing that our country could have done is leave Rishi Sunak in to give it a go. He was the best of the bad bunch. An alright bloke and he was getting some things done when the conservatives were booted out.

I think this true. I liked him.

Howisitfebruaryalready · 01/10/2025 14:48

I mean if you support racists and fascists I'm not really sure by what other standards you would expect to be judged. You can't be surprised that you lie down with pigs and get covered in mud 🤷‍♀️

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 01/10/2025 14:48

IAmThePrettiestManOnMyIsland · 01/10/2025 11:47

Certainly not on MN. It is notoriously liberal.

In the real world the polls prove otherwise.

Edited

They live in another world don’t they on mn.

DingDongJingle · 01/10/2025 14:50

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 01/10/2025 14:48

They live in another world don’t they on mn.

Pretty sure I live in the same world as everyone else.

WolfingtonBear · 01/10/2025 14:50

Howisitfebruaryalready · 01/10/2025 14:48

I mean if you support racists and fascists I'm not really sure by what other standards you would expect to be judged. You can't be surprised that you lie down with pigs and get covered in mud 🤷‍♀️

It is exactly this kind of silly hyperbole that is going to give this country a Farage/Reform government. How can people not see it? 🙄

HardyHiker · 01/10/2025 14:51

HedwigEliza · 01/10/2025 14:34

But the answer to an over-burdened welfare state isn’t to bring in unlimited numbers of low-skilled, poorly educated immigrants, who in turn will grow older and expect a pension - what is your solution, endless immigration? At what point do you say enough?

There are now more people benefiting from the welfare state than there are those who contribute. Is this sustainable? How are all these people to be educated, housed, their health taken care of? You’re creating enormous problems for your children and your grandchildren in years to come if you think this is in any way sustainable.

It’s all very well saying you want a fairer society for all, but that’s just empty words, it’s meaningless. In your case, you’re prepared to sacrifice the future of your family in order that you suffer no discomfort. What about the young people here - citizens of this country? Those in poverty, those who’ve had a poor education, in low-level jobs with no hope for the future or hope of ever owning a home or having a family of their own? How about we do right by them?

But Reform aren't about helping anyone but the elite and ensuring they are OK, and getting richer whilst the rest of us get poorer. They don't really support the people of this country. They just want to rile them into blaming immigrants when the real problem is that the sysytem is always going to benefit the rich.The proportion of the budget spent on immigrants is actually quite low. How about going after all the people and corporations who are avoiding paying their fair share of tax? Reform want to tear down workers rights so companies can make obscene profits, and pay huge bonuses at their expense.
You haven't said anything about the NHS. Do you believe it should continue or do you believe in the American insurance system which Reform plan to bring in, which will benefit Farage's American friends?
BTW my children are with me and don't feel that I am sacrificing them at my own expense. We come from a family of trade unionists are will fiercely defend workers' rights.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 01/10/2025 14:55

charliehungerford · 01/10/2025 11:53

But we are giving immigrant young men more entitlement than our own citizens. An unemployed 24 year old who is a single man who has fallen
on hard times and is desperate would be very unlikely to be given a warm
place to sleep and food to eat if he rocked up at his local council office. He’d be fortunate if he was given a bed in a hostel, let alone being accommodated in a hotel for months on end.

Exactly I know a male 50 year old cancer sufferer who was told to sleep in his car as the council did not want to know.

ridl14 · 01/10/2025 14:56

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 10:14

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

Do you also support Nigel Farage speaking at Nomad Capitalist, helping wealthy people to get British passports or move their money overseas?

SerendipityJane · 01/10/2025 14:56

WolfingtonBear · 01/10/2025 14:50

It is exactly this kind of silly hyperbole that is going to give this country a Farage/Reform government. How can people not see it? 🙄

Edited

Maybe some people don't feel like becoming racists just to spare racists feelings ?

childofthe607080s · 01/10/2025 14:57

ok you are not racist - you are just promoting a party and potential government that is openly racist and radically against the working class whilst at the same time pinching their beer, and that makes me uncomfortable?

Blusteryskies · 01/10/2025 14:58

LeaAndDer · 01/10/2025 10:31

my thoughts on this are that for most people who would vote reform would do so as they are fed up with funding illegal able bodied young men. Young men who come here because we give them everything for nothing. Meanwhile our own people are homeless and/or struggling to live despite having jobs. It’s not about being racists its about looking after our own first. I speak as a granny to a mixed race child, so please don’t call me racist for my thoughts.

Do you think your mixed race grandchild would want you to vote for Reform? As somebody who is mixed race, I would be devastated if any member of my family voted Reform. Thankfully I highly doubt any member of my family would, as my grandparents, now dead, came from Germany and knew exactly what Reform's rhetoric leads to. The Nazis didn't start by saying let's exterminate the Jews - they started by blaming the Jews for all the ills of society, much like what we see Reform doing with refugees. It's not even just refugees now is it? It's anybody foreign whether they're here legally or not.

whoopsnomore · 01/10/2025 15:02

Honish · 01/10/2025 12:14

The irony being that Starmer while calling other political parties fascists, is the first PM to jail people, mothers of young children and pensioners, for social media posts.

That's not how the justice system works in the UK. Independent judiciary. And incitement to racial violence is indeed a crime.

childofthe607080s · 01/10/2025 15:04

illegal able bodied men are not given everything

tens of thousands of such men have been sent back in only a few months of this year

by parroting a falsehood about illegals you are showing a refusal to accept truth over scaremongering, swallowing wholesale an easy answer to problems your right wing friends created at your expense , playing on your deepest fears

BloominNora · 01/10/2025 15:06

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 14:00

Maybe think about it like you're going on plane journey with a change over. Whilst your busy worry whether the next connection will be on time and get to where it needs to be, we are focusing on why the plane we are currently on is flying into a mountain.

To continue your analogy - we have been flying into that mountain since at least 2016, if not before, but you are blaming the pilot who has only been steering the plane for five minutes!

Why aren't you blaming the pilots who sabotaged the auto-pilot and steering and dumped all of the fuel, while distracting passengers by getting them to look out of the window, before intentionally pointing the plane towards the mountain in the first place?

Those same pilots have retreated to First Class so that they put their feet up with champagne and peanuts while heckling the new pilot and telling everyone in economy how awful he is.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2025 15:08

WolfingtonBear · 01/10/2025 14:45

These threads discussing our current “government” and its competitors do interest me, especially when there’s a poll! I’ve been on & off MN for almost 20 years. Even just a couple of years ago, the OP would have been completely drubbed and polls would have had minimal votes for the opposition of the leftist/liberal party line. I note though that 31% of those who have read the OP agree with them…

I'm so depressed by the state of everything that I have decided to sit firmly on the fence and observe rather than engage, for the sake of my mental health. A few things I know though, is that calling half plus of the electorate thick/racist/fascist/deplorable hasn't turned out so well in the US leading to a Trump government, the same will happen here, it IS happening - Farage obvs, not Trump. Additionally if you aren’t terrified by the idea of five police officers turning up to arrest you at the airport or in your own home for something you said on social media, you need to get your head out of the sand immediately. Labour is supportive & behind this and for that reason alone their government must be reined in. I’ve voted labour all my life, I will never vote for them again. They’re terrifying right now.

Yeh I hear you.

persephonia · 01/10/2025 15:09

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 01/10/2025 14:55

Exactly I know a male 50 year old cancer sufferer who was told to sleep in his car as the council did not want to know.

The hotels ARE effectively hostels though. With the same issues that hostels have. The only difference is they can be relocated to different parts of the country with hardly any warning. I completely agree, there should be more support for homeless men and homeless people in general. But the asylum seekers aren't sleeping in luxury compared to them and if you emptied the hostels/hotels all that would happen is an increase in rough sleepers. Which people would also be unhappy about.
Processing their claims faster and repatriating those who have no right to remain would clear the backlog. But you are always going to need somewhere to put people while claims are processed since they can't legally work.

There was a homeless (mens) hostel near me and some of the locals were up in arms about it. So don't think that the angry protests outside asylum seekers hotels couldn't be retargetted if a new enemy is needed. I actually think the rhetoric around "healthy young men" not needing help can and is going to be repurposed as needed to justify reducing assistance for men in need.

CheeseyOnionPie · 01/10/2025 15:10

Did he actually say that though or are you just choosing to hear that?

If you’re a racist thug then yes you are an enemy of the state, as you should be.

Reform / Farage are going down the Trump route using his exact playbook. If you think it’s fair that families who have lived here and paid taxes for decades are deported just so you can see if the boats are also stopped (they won’t be) then you go ahead and vote for Farage. But when he strips the NHS bare, sells it off to his millionaire pals, and you have to pay for health insurance don’t dare complain.

Unless you’re one of the very wealthy in this country Farage won’t do a stitch to help you. He’s so spineless he can’t even admit that paracetamol doesn’t cause autism in case it upsets his Daddy Trump. Pathetic.

CrushTheAloe · 01/10/2025 15:15

LimitedMedicalKnowledge · 01/10/2025 14:30

The best thing that our country could have done is leave Rishi Sunak in to give it a go. He was the best of the bad bunch. An alright bloke and he was getting some things done when the conservatives were booted out.

The British people have had enough. I don't know why this has turned into a race issue. Don't people of other colours here have issues getting doctor's appointments, their kids in a decent school, have their elderly parents lying on the floor in hospitals? Don't they resent paying for the workshy? Are their wives, daughters and sisters not in any danger of undocumented males coming here on boats? Or, are they facing the same issues as the rest of the people?

Britain should be closed for a while, whilst it gets its house in order. If you have a British passport, you are British, end of. If you don't, then sorry, but you are here as a guest and you may not be able to stay unless you have a solid case. TBH we should just let everyone who is here now stay, and just draw a line under it for a while.

No racism. Everyone is British. Let's get our house in order for us ALL.

I am politically homeless. I am right of centre, but no one is doing it for me. However, Kerr Starmer is a socialist, a far left in disguise. If we are talking hate, then I'd say it is KS who hates British people and to be more specific, he hates WC white people. He thinks we are as thick as shit and need someone clever like him to make decision for us as we are too stupid and ignorant to do it ourselves.

Edited

I think exactly along the same lines as you. I was never a Tory voter, but I actually liked rishi sunak. He seemed to have integrity and whilst acknowledging his extreme privilege, still seemed to actually give a shit about the w/c. He had a plan. Unfortunately, he came into leadership after far too many years of Tory ineptitude. Starmer loathes the working classes, yesterday's speech was a very thinly veiled attack on their " stupidity " and " ignorance ". I guess we should have expected this given his past as a human rights lawyer.

Panofrashers · 01/10/2025 15:16

Bumblebee72 · 01/10/2025 10:14

So we have it Starmer has declared at conference because I support Reform I am now an enemy of his Government.

Who would have thought it, a middle class British worker, now an enemy in the country I was born. And they say Reform is the party of Fascists. Yet we also now have the Home Secretary saying "In solving this crisis, you may not always like what I do. We will have to question some of the assumptions and legal constraints that have lasted for a generation and more". Maybe the Home Secretary too will be deemed an enemy of the state.

Am I being unreasonable to think this should be seen as a rallying cry to get this Government out at the first opportunity.

If you support Reform, you are an enemy of the state.
The NHS must be protected at all costs. Farage would introduce a US-style health insurance system that would be a disaster for Britain. I lived in the US for ten years and I can assure you costly private health is not something you want to live (and die) with.

Thortour · 01/10/2025 15:16

You are. I hope that helps.

Themedat · 01/10/2025 15:17

TwistyTales · 01/10/2025 10:24

He didn't call you or anyone else an enemy of the state. This is what he said:

Controlling migration is a reasonable goal.

But if you throw bricks and smash up private property…

That’s not legitimate – that’s thuggery.

Free speech is a British value – and we have guarded it for centuries.

But if you incite racist violence and hatred…

That’s not expressing concern – it’s criminal.

This party, this great party, is proud of our flags…

Yet if they are painted alongside graffiti…

Telling a Chinese takeaway owner to “go home”…

That’s not pride – that’s racism.

And if you say or imply…

That people cannot be English or British…

Because of the colour of their skin…

That mixed heritage families owe you an explanation…

And that people who have lived here for generations…

Raised their children here…

Built lives in their communities…

Working in our schools, our hospitals, running businesses…

Our neighbours…

If you say they should now be deported…

Then mark my words…

We will fight you with everything we have…

Because you are an enemy of national renewal

Well I don’t disagree with any of that but what is ‘national renewal’?

Thats a bad choice of phrase imo.

CrushTheAloe · 01/10/2025 15:19

persephonia · 01/10/2025 15:09

The hotels ARE effectively hostels though. With the same issues that hostels have. The only difference is they can be relocated to different parts of the country with hardly any warning. I completely agree, there should be more support for homeless men and homeless people in general. But the asylum seekers aren't sleeping in luxury compared to them and if you emptied the hostels/hotels all that would happen is an increase in rough sleepers. Which people would also be unhappy about.
Processing their claims faster and repatriating those who have no right to remain would clear the backlog. But you are always going to need somewhere to put people while claims are processed since they can't legally work.

There was a homeless (mens) hostel near me and some of the locals were up in arms about it. So don't think that the angry protests outside asylum seekers hotels couldn't be retargetted if a new enemy is needed. I actually think the rhetoric around "healthy young men" not needing help can and is going to be repurposed as needed to justify reducing assistance for men in need.

God, you've never been inside a homeless hostel have you? They're about as far removed from a premier inn as you could get. I know which one I'd choose.

EasternStandard · 01/10/2025 15:20

Thortour · 01/10/2025 15:16

You are. I hope that helps.

You think the op is an ‘enemy of the state’?

It does ramp up.

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