To ban this girl over biscuit incident?

[Thisisnothalloween]

I may be way overthinking this, but I am trying my best to keep a calm home.

I have a fairly open house policy to my kid's friends & a few other local kids. They come round sometimes to play, hang out, have the occasional snack/drink/use the toilet & get minor cuts/bruises treated when they're playing out (we're in a quiet cul-de-sac with access to local small park). I like knowing that these kids have somewhere safe to go if needed.

Both my DS10 and DD8 are neurodiverse, and most of their local friends also have ND traits (ASD/ADHD, some diagnosed) so it can be a lot of work to balance conflicting needs between a group of them together. When they get on well together, they are great, however, small disagreements can escalate into fireworks quickly. The group are generally good at accepting & understanding of my kids quirks/meltdowns when they become dysregulated, and I try to offer the same in return.

One girl (Child A) has started to come round more over the last few weeks, mostly tagging along to join the eldest of the friends (13). I don't know her well, but my kids like her well enough to have her hang out sometimes with another couple of friends.

There was an incident recently, where another girl (Child B - ADHD with emotional regulation issues) was getting ready to leave, to find that her packet of biscuits was missing from where she left them on a table. The other kids denied all knowledge of where they were, though Child A had a smirk on her face. Child B challenged Child A, and was becoming increasingly upset and screaming at her. Child A continued to deny hiding them & was blaming another friend. As I tried to help calm Child B in the hallway (along with her mother who had come to get her home), the biscuits magically reappeared on the table 🙄
After a few angry words, Child B left (along with the aforementioned biscuits!). After briefly speaking with the remaining friends about playing "pranks", I asked the other kids to leave at that point, as my DS was getting overwhelmed with the conflict.

I am getting a sense of "mean girl" vibes from Child A from this incident, especially as I have since heard of a few other things she has previously done/said. She presents as fairly quiet & innocent, but seems to like stirring situations to get reactions from others.

WIBU to not allow Child A in to hang out anymore.

YABU - Child A was playing a childish, but harmless joke, that escalated due to Child B's OTT reaction. It's just biscuits...

YANBU - It's not about the biscuits. Child A has shown they can't be trusted & should face consequences for their behaviour & lying about it to cause upset🤷🏻‍♀️

how do you know it was A?

I can’t be arsed giving an opinion as OP can’t be arsed coming back.

It isn't an 8 year old and a (just) teenager though, it's a whole mix of ages.

While I agree with PPs that this isn’t a big deal, I’ve learned my lesson about being a bit too relaxed about all the friends coming round to mine, especially as they get older. My DD’s friends like our house as it’s central and on the route home from school - but I did end up with them taking the piss with mess and noise and had to put my foot down and be a bit less Ms Nice Person - now they know not to mess with me and that I will be expecting them to behave or not come back.

Re ND, yes a lots of kids have diagnoses now including my own DD, but IMO they still have to learn the rules of acceptable behaviour, if they are functioning enough to be going to school, out and about on their own etc. (I realise for some ND people that is not possible but I am not talking about the fully dependent end of the spectrum here.) FWIW I do think ND is being over-diagnosed, as well as assumed or armchair-diagnosed by parents and teachers. It’s become fashionable and a badge of honour much like being trans, which makes it harder for the people who really do need help.

I do think it would be helpful to let go of viewing all these kids through an ND lens and address their behaviour - you don’t have to be a dragon, just have firm house rules and make clear statements - “We don’t do XYZ in this house” / “There’s a mess in the front room, that needs tidying up now please” and so on.

I would ban FOR the smirk.

Your gut feeling is she is a PITA. Go with your gut. There are no consequences anyway.

Not enough to go on from one incident. Kids do this sort of thing often, even between good friends. The 13 year old might not have the same understanding of the situation as you do, so I would not ban her unless it continues.

Does anyone else find these 'drop and run' threads that go on for several pages without a single reply from OP as irritating as me?

Speak to her.
IF she did it, tell her it’s not nice behaviour and she’s got one more chance, and stick to it.

OC. I mean, why do they not use Chatgpt if they don't want to engage?

How can you be bothered?
Aren't we all disregulated at some point?
It used to be called " being naughty" or " being tired"

I understand you want to make your children's friends feel welcome but you seem to be accepting every child who goes to the nearby park and lives locally, into your home! These children all have homes of their own to use the toilet/get drinks/snacks/first aid from. Your house is becoming a youth club, and unfortunately you will be sorting issues like this, a lot of the time, if you continue down this road. You don't necessarily know all these children particularly well either. You are not obliged to have any other children in your home, if you don't want too! Personally, I'd stop this 'open house' policy and starting putting in boundaries. Your children are allowed a friend each over, at one time. That's then 4 children in your home. As your children become older, and turn into teens, you'll end up with 10 teenagers lounging around your house, eating all your food, and treating your home like a hotel, if you don't nip this in the bud! It's very easy to be taken advantage of.

This reminds me of a child in my DD’s class at primary school. She randomly hid another child’s shoe in a cupboard whilst they were doing PE. The shoe’s owner had to go home in trainers and their parents had to buy new school shoes. The hidden shoe turned up about a week later, and the staff flushed out who had hidden it. She is autistic (quite severely by some measures) and didn’t even know why she’d done it.
The school handled it, and she never did anything like that again.

With ND children yourself though, and keeping an ‘open house’ you need to be mindful that you are exposing them to all sorts of behaviours that walk through your door. If they struggle to self regulate anyway, that’s quite an ask. You may want to consider creating more of a safe space for them at home, rather than one that is likely to generate situations they need to deal with that they maybe aren’t easily able to.

hwo do you know that all the children have ND traits? How do you know child A did it? Do you realise what a responsibility you are taking on?

Maybe stop trying to be a cool mum and stop letting every Tom, Dick and Harry in your house?
Oh and they’re all ND. The bloody world and his wife is these days 🙄
I don’t think this is real though

Nobody wants to be ordinary anymore.

How do you know child B has disregulation issues?
Screaming at another child is acceptable to you but smirking isn't?

You brushed past quite quickly the fact that child A was blaming another child - what was this child doing at the time? How sure are you it was Child A?

The biscuits were returned so whoever it was realised their actions, but did hild B take responsibility for screaming and 'angry words' before leaving?

I

This open house isn’t a very good idea as the older they get the more things like ‘biscuitgate’ will happen!

Running your home as a drop in centre will see your own children suffer.

Only allow actual real friends of your children around.

I wouldn’t ban her over it. That said, I really don’t like smirking, in anyone.

Yanbu.
Child A would no longer be welcome.
Your home is not a community centre.
I would be very firm on this.
You sound like a great woman, but protect your home and boundaries.
You facilitate your child primarily.
Child A caused drama, isn't very nice, so she is no longer welcome.

If it was a one off then I'd say give her another chance. But she sounds like a troublemaker. I'd just stop having an open house for a while and only have one or two kids at a time.

This sort of set up I don't doubt they're displaying "signs". Neglect/attachment disorders, lack of consistency or guidance and being around unpredictable adults causes some of the same presentations as ASD/ADHD. These children sound like they're out alone and left to it a lot of the time, there will be a bigger picture of their upbringing leading to their struggles regulating etc.

Is anybody convergent?

I will be flamed for this but I have a diagnosis and am medicated for combined ADHD so hopefully I have some insight. Do all of these children really, truly all have ADHD/ASD? Why does almost every mumsnetter's child and every child they know seem to have ADHD/ASD? Or are quick to label children who are undiagnosed "some diagnosed" without considering the many factors at play that could be influencing their behaviour such as diet, boredom, poor parenting, the list goes on. In real life I only know a handful of people who are neurodivergent. I suspect many - not all- of these children who are suspected ASD/ADHD do not have it at all.

I would allow child A back, but have a word with her. Make it clear you know what she did, outline why it's not acceptable, deliberate unkindness is not tolerated... and let her know she will not be welcome if anything like that happens again. I know it's not 100% certain she took them, but at least this approach will ensure if she did (which appears to be likely), she is called up on it. If she didn't - well hopefully it'll be clear by her reaction. She may even grass up the kid who did so it, if she actually didn't. Then you can speak to them!

"Poor ND " That comes across quite rude. I think it’s lovely that OP wants to encourage play many ND children often build friendships with younger or older children, so having that flexibility can be really positive.

That said, I do agree that an open-house style of play can get overwhelming and boundaries are important. Without some structure, it can end up being stressful for both the parent and their own children.