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AIBU?

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Reform voters may not be racist but they are at least dangerously naive

1000 replies

ChocolateMagnum · 29/09/2025 08:00

AIBU to accept that some Reform voters may not actually be racist, but to be pretty certain that, if they're not, they are at the very least dangerously naive?

I thought we all got taught at school about how fascism took over in 1939s Germany? And there's so much out there at the moment showing why we are at a dangerous turning point in history again.

Why is it that the so-called non-racist Reform voters not see that they are aligning themselves with a covertly racist and fascist-leaning party and that their support risks tipping the balance towards a fascist dictatorship in the UK?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
gingerelephant · 29/09/2025 16:39

I don't think people are naive to vote Reform I think they are worried. Society has changed and immigration in the UK has resulted in our society having to accommodate other cultures over and above the culture of this country ie everyone can make jokes etc about Christianity but not about other some other religions. I believe that if you are living in another country you conform to their norms and their standards. People have been silenced and the allegations of racisism or phobic is used to shut down debates - Reform has opened that up and yet again people are being silenced by the allegation that they are racist. They are expressing a view and they are entitled to it, the further people are silenced the more extreme they will become and that is why we should have open debates and not start name calling people who have different views

Jumpingthruhoops · 29/09/2025 16:39

sesquipedalian · 29/09/2025 08:23

You are being utterly unreasonable, OP. We are all entitled to our opinions, and many people want a much firmer grip on immigration, most particularly illegal immigration that not only endangers the lives of those undertaking such a journey, but also puts a huge strain on the finances and infrastructure of our country. Whether or not Reform will be able to do anything effective about it remains to be seen - but you cannot blame Reform members from thinking that the other parties have failed utterly in their duty to defend our borders. I am not a reform voter, but I can understand why people are despairing of the mainstream political parties.

100 percent this! 👏👏

In fact, at this point, it's the relentless 'you're thick/racist/insert other choice insult here' that is actually pushing people TOWARDS Farage's lot. Yet STILL they can't see it!

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 16:39

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:30

All of them

Christ on a bike.

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:40

StandFirm · 29/09/2025 16:35

All of those proposals are immoral because they lump existing and new immigrants together in one large dragnet that will see lives ruined and families torn apart. It's cruel and unjust but sums up just what Reform and its followers are like.

I really don't think you can allow yourself to concentrate on this topic for fear of being proven wrong

You did read the part about re-applying? That it is only illegal immigrants that would be deported. Do you not think illegals should be deported, for example?

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 16:41

Petherbride · 29/09/2025 16:30

The head in the sand position they have clearly adopted just has to be ignored. They are so complacent that they can’t envisage that anything, ever, could threaten their supremacy.
They aren’t looking at the situation at all, they are clucking virtue signalling noises and busily believing other people are ‘thick’.

Please explain to me why a prediction of 24% of the UK population being Muslim in 40 years in the UK is an issue. I have asked this a few times on the thread, but no one seems to want to reply.

I would also appreciate a link to the data predicting this, if anyone has it.

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:41

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 16:38

I'm horrified by the lack of humanity.

Are you always so defensive for criminals?

Jumpingthruhoops · 29/09/2025 16:42

HedwigEliza · 29/09/2025 08:27

You underestimate the majority’s feelings on this. MN is a left-leaning echo chamber and no reflection on society as a whole. 72% of the voting public in the UK wants immigration numbers lowered.

Do you remember MN pre-Brexit when everyone here was absolutely convinced it wouldn’t happen and anyone who offered a different opinion was abused and shamed into silence?

How did that work out? Shock and horror and ‘how could this happen?’ Because you insist on writing people off as naive fools instead of engaging with their concerns and listening.

This too! 👏👏

I said as much at the time and got called all the names under the sun for it!

I do wish people would listen...

HedwigEliza · 29/09/2025 16:42

Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood now says migrants must earn the right to live in the UK at the Labour Party conference. Changes include doubling the qualifying period to 10 years and new conditions such as learning English to a high standard and having a clean criminal record.

Sounds absolutely fine, nothing wrong with that. Exactly what I said earlier - as an immigrant, it’s a privilege to be able to live in another country, not a right.

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 16:42

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:40

I really don't think you can allow yourself to concentrate on this topic for fear of being proven wrong

You did read the part about re-applying? That it is only illegal immigrants that would be deported. Do you not think illegals should be deported, for example?

If people are here legally, why would they need to reapply and be subject to more stringent rules in order to be allowed to stay?

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 16:43

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:40

I really don't think you can allow yourself to concentrate on this topic for fear of being proven wrong

You did read the part about re-applying? That it is only illegal immigrants that would be deported. Do you not think illegals should be deported, for example?

No it's not, it's currently legal immigrants who would be deported!

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:43

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 16:41

Please explain to me why a prediction of 24% of the UK population being Muslim in 40 years in the UK is an issue. I have asked this a few times on the thread, but no one seems to want to reply.

I would also appreciate a link to the data predicting this, if anyone has it.

Before we go on - what is your view about how Islam and Christianity work alongside each other? Do you see them as compatible?

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:44

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 16:43

No it's not, it's currently legal immigrants who would be deported!

Please read it again

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 29/09/2025 16:47

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:44

Please read it again

Literally any policy relating to people who currently have ILR is a policy regarding legal immigrants. Not illegal ones.

EasternStandard · 29/09/2025 16:47

HedwigEliza · 29/09/2025 16:42

Home Secretary Shabana Mahmood now says migrants must earn the right to live in the UK at the Labour Party conference. Changes include doubling the qualifying period to 10 years and new conditions such as learning English to a high standard and having a clean criminal record.

Sounds absolutely fine, nothing wrong with that. Exactly what I said earlier - as an immigrant, it’s a privilege to be able to live in another country, not a right.

I wonder if Labour supporters will focus on this much

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 16:47

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:43

Before we go on - what is your view about how Islam and Christianity work alongside each other? Do you see them as compatible?

I think it is only polite to answer my questions first!

Screamingabdabz · 29/09/2025 16:48

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:43

Before we go on - what is your view about how Islam and Christianity work alongside each other? Do you see them as compatible?

Actually, in ecumenical terms, they do. But it’s the conservative mores of each culture that is problematic - mainly for girls, women and gay people. Blokes, as per usual, are fine and dandy whoever holds power.

Skippydoodle · 29/09/2025 16:49

You are looking at the wrong edge of the wedge

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 16:49

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:41

Are you always so defensive for criminals?

There aren't criminals on the list you just agreed to deport. Did you read it?!

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 16:49

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:43

Before we go on - what is your view about how Islam and Christianity work alongside each other? Do you see them as compatible?

How can they be compatible when one decrees that the only acceptable God is theirs, and all else are kafirs who must be extinguished?

Goldenbear · 29/09/2025 16:50

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:38

Did you not concentrate in your maths class at school? The reporter in this article clearly didn't either

Honestly, you go on about Reform voters being thick....

In what way it is a Sky News report for goodness sake, hardly a left wing biased media outlet. In what way is the reporter wrong in this article on Reform's manifesto pledges: https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uks-tax-plans-disproportionately-benefit-high-earners-analysis-shows-13156776

Reform UK's tax plans disproportionately benefit high earners, analysis shows

Nigel Farage previously maintained that people on lower incomes would benefit more than those on higher incomes when the tax cuts were viewed as a proportion of their total salary.

https://news.sky.com/story/reform-uks-tax-plans-disproportionately-benefit-high-earners-analysis-shows-13156776

Uggbootsforever · 29/09/2025 16:50

PandoraSocks · 29/09/2025 16:41

Please explain to me why a prediction of 24% of the UK population being Muslim in 40 years in the UK is an issue. I have asked this a few times on the thread, but no one seems to want to reply.

I would also appreciate a link to the data predicting this, if anyone has it.

Do you see any of the existing Islamic countries as ‘an issue’ as far as human rights are concerned? Or are you pro death penalty, pro homophobia, pro women being owned objects?

BundleBoogie · 29/09/2025 16:51

AxMxPfan · 29/09/2025 12:46

OP, I feel exactly as you do. I fear fascism, the erosion of democracy and the decline of our culture… with the twist that I 💯 agree with Reform and believe that people with opinions like yours are the ones being naive. Let me explain why.

I am from Turkey and am from a religious minority group there. In 1993, Islamists attacked and burned down Madimak hotel in Sivas province, killing 37 young intellectuals from my religion who were gathered for a special event. Turkey is a country riddled with sectarian violence and religion plays a big role in this. Christians, Jews and Alevis have managed to live side by side in peace and the Sunnis haven’t. They see us as infidels and constantly seek to gain dominance over us and they have succeeded.
In 1923, Ataturk created the Turkish Republic and one of its tenets was the separation of mosque and government. In fact, it forced modernisation on every citizen by suppressing religion in the hope that people would become secular. It worked for a while but eventually, secular families ended up having fewer children (2-3) from the 60s onwards with the introduction of the contraceptive pill and greater urbanisation. Rural extremist/conservative Muslim families had on average 7 children and their numbers ballooned. They started using democracy to gain national power and in 2002 became the ruling party after years of having Erdogan in the position of Istanbul mayor. They relentlessly pursued power by pretending to be meek and moderate when they were a political minority. When they came to power, they wooed voters with economic growth and development and intimidated secular Muslims by reminding them that they were Muslim first and foremost. They created divisions and polarised the population. When I went to live there in 2010, it was a fragile democracy/anocracy but now Erdogan has consolidated so much power that it’s not even an anocracy, it’s practically a dictatorship. With so much power, they then plundered the country and were very corrupt. Now, the economy is in tatters, with ridiculous inflation decimating people’s incomes.

I grew up in the UK and am grateful for everything in the West but I fear that it will succumb to Islamism. There are already 85
islamic Councils in the UK that ‘advise’ (in the future they would simply dictate) people based on sharia law. Sharia law states that a woman’s testimony is half of a man’s, that adulterers should be stoned, that apostates should be killed…

I don’t think western liberals or lefties can even get their heads around how unbearable it is to live in an Islamic country. Sure, it’s not as bad as North Korea in places like Saudi Arabia or Iran but it’s because people still have the freedom to visit the West and have access to media that connects them to western ideas and thoughts so it’s like having a window that opens whereas North Korea is like living in an underground bunker with an abusive family member with no hope of escape.

There is something fundamentally wrong with Islam and it can never be fixed because it is impossible to reform it due to its own blasphemy laws and customs. In the West, they seek to tie our hands and gag us with the made-up term ‘Islamophobia’. When we criticise it, we are met with anger and hatred from Muslims and a similar reaction from leftists who gaslight us. When we make very compelling, logical arguments against the religion, we’re lied to by ordinary Muslims who practice ‘taqiyya’ to further the cause of Islam. We’re dealing with a slippery eel that refuses to look you straight in the eye and instead attacks and disorients its opponent.

I am betting that this comment will get deleted.

The strange thing is, I’m not against immigration at all. I’m just against immigration from that religion. I voted for Remain because I love Europeans. I have nothing against people from the Far East, Latin America or Africa coming here in the millions and putting a strain on services or bringing their own culture with them… as long as they are not of a religion that wants to destroy the West.

This is quite depressing AxMx. I sincerely hope that people listen to your message even if they dismiss the rest of us as ‘racist’.

Lebanon also went from majority Christian to a significant majority Muslim in a relatively short space of time. It is not a happy country.

Muslims are also murdering Christians in Sudan and trying to wipe them out, not that our mainstream media has any interest in that.

Meanwhile, pps are running round calling us racist and ‘anti Muslim’ for even wanting to talk about the mass immigration of men from largely Muslim countries.

timep.org/2024/05/09/the-forgotten-war-on-sudans-christians/

Apparently, according to FOI responses, the government can’t be bothered to gather data on the religion of immigrants to this country. Despite the potential cultural impacts.

The data that is available estimates that it is nearly half. Bear in mind these figures are old and the numbers now are far higher but unlikely to have changed in proportion.

Relatively few recent immigrants to the UK (60,000) were refugees, but more than 1.5 million regular migrants arrived there in recent years. Overall, an estimated 43% of all migrants to the UK between mid-2010 and mid-2016 were Muslims.
Combining Muslim refugees and Muslim regular migrants, Germany was the destination for more Muslim migrants overall than the UK (850,000 vs. 690,000).
France also received more than half a million Muslim migrants – predominantly regular migrants – between mid-2010 and mid-2016, while 400,000 Muslims arrived in Italy. The two countries accepted a combined total of 210,000 refugees (130,000 by Italy and 80,000 by France), most of whom were Muslims.
Sweden received even more refugees than the UK, Italy and France, all of which have much larger populations. A large majority of these 200,000 refugees (an estimated 77%) were Muslims; Sweden also received 250,000 regular migrants, most of whom were Muslims (58%). Overall, 300,000 Muslim migrants – 160,000 of whom were refugees – arrived in Sweden in recent years. Only Germany, the UK, France and Italy received more Muslim migrants to Europe overall since mid-2010. But because Sweden is home to fewer than 10 million people, these arrivals have a bigger impact on Sweden’s overall religious composition than does Muslim migration to larger countries in Western Europe.

www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/#:~:text=Relatively%20few%20recent%20immigrants%20to,and%20mid%2D2016%20were%20Muslims.

Skippydoodle · 29/09/2025 16:52

Sadaboutthewaythingsaregoing · 29/09/2025 08:22

I don't know why they don't see it.
I know a fair few Reform voters. They are usually quite nostalgic especially about the second world war and it's deeply ironic that these Churchill worshippers, had they lived in 1930s Germany, would have voted for Hitler.
I feel that there's an element especially with retired people, that rolling GB news is a form of brainwashing.
The country is in a state but Reform government would be an absolute disaster, you can judge the calibre of the people that have been elected from their ranks from UKIP days onwards.
There are certainly educated people among them. I would say that they are the puppet masters and/or the people who see a good route to the gravy train.

Oh, the irony. So sad that you can’t see it. Just WOW.

Toastandbutterand · 29/09/2025 16:56

hamstersarse · 29/09/2025 16:44

Please read it again

Reform would make currently legal immigrants illegal. He would remove people's right to live here.

Tom: hi, I'm tom, I'm a legal immigrant!

Reform: we say you're not anymore.

Tom: hang on....

Ooops, toms gone.

Youre seriously seriously ok with this? You understand what this means?

Goldenbear · 29/09/2025 16:56

Jumpingthruhoops · 29/09/2025 16:42

This too! 👏👏

I said as much at the time and got called all the names under the sun for it!

I do wish people would listen...

What, you do wish the UK public would commit economic suicide by backing the disruptive reactionary that brought us Brexit and made most of us worse off. That's literally why we are in this bloody mess to begin with, everyone nows reactionary popular politics, wanting to blame and other minorities, parallels times of economics decline!

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